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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I disagree that there are 3 teams with all the talent. In this age group, for whatever reason, the talent is much more spread out. There are girls at several other clubs that are very talented but for whatever reason, don't have any interest in playing at SUSA, where new ATM'S are always welcome, EM or LISC. I know a few girls that also play lacrosse and don't have the time to commit 4 days per week to soccer practice that would easily be one of the top players at any of these 3 clubs. As a result, they play elsewhere and only have to commit 2-3 days per week to soccer practice. And before anyone asks the stupid question, I'm not identifying any 14 year old girls on this site.

That's a lie. You make a blanket statement with assumptions. Where are these amazing soccer players/lacrosse player's? Oh that's right, they don't exist....

I'm going to have to agree with this. By this age, the girls have all played each other for years and everyone basically knows who's out there. Unless there is a new girl that's moved into the area or a girl that's worked super hard over the off-season, there are really no surprises that will/can take a top spot from one of the 3 clubs.

You're wrong. There are exceptional soccer players that have chosen lacrosse as there #1 sport. It is unrealistic to believe that the top 60 players are on SUSA, where new ATM'S are always welcome, EM or LISC.

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You are out of your mind if you *really* believe that there aren't any 14 year old girls on LI that could slide into the starting line ups of one of those three teams - but choose to play elsewhere because their first commitment is lacrosse (or anything else for that matter).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
You are out of your mind if you *really* believe that there aren't any 14 year old girls on LI that could slide into the starting line ups of one of those three teams - but choose to play elsewhere because their first commitment is lacrosse (or anything else for that matter).

Yes, and there are girls that can slide into those starting lineups and chose not to based on cost, location and I'm sure many other factors. It amazes me that you thing that every person who plays soccer WANTS to play for one of those clubs, but its hard to argue with some who believes there is no other intelligent life in the universe. Do all the smartest kids go to Ivy league schools? Why do you think that is. I get it your kid plays for SUSA, where new ATM'S are always welcome so they have to be the best!

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Originally Posted by Larry Miller
With your points well taken try this….

Maybe these parents who are blowing 6 to 8K a year don’t have it to blow, but rather think of it as a gambling bet that their kid is going to get a full ride to a quality college or university.

A four-year tuition, books, traveling back-and-forth, and other expenses will exceed $200,000 easily.

I would think it is people with lesser means that are being suckered into thinking there’s this huge pot of gold at the end of a training session, that playing with team XYZ in league ABC only to find out it was all smoke and mirrors.

How is this possible that Long Island parents still believe this, when all you have to do is check social media “committed” posts to see that players on these LI teams almost never go to schools that are considered academically good on a national scale. Most of the commitments I see seem to be to schools that even mediocre high school non-athlete students can get into. Am I wrong here? Please someone correct me if so.

Also, the whole talent debate is pointless because most coaches in LI don’t develop talent and thus, one will never really know how much talent and potential really exists anywhere in the US until the system is radically disrupted to begin reversing the damaging effects of pay to play. The broken pyramid scheme of a system will continue without transformative innovation, along with a mandate and incentives from US soccer to change. Parents will not get smarter, clearly. So it’s the clubs, leagues and US soccer who have to lead change and find ways to incentivize and support better player development and equitable opportunities while de-incentivizing the bad behavior that perpetuates the problem. Look no further than the nominees for FIFA best female players in world (one out of a dozen is from the US) and the gradual decline of the WNT’s success internationally to see that the world has caught up. The rest of the world is beginning to beat us at women’s soccer, and we had a head start only because of our progressivism. If we don’t find new, radical ways to fix the broken system, talent will continue to slip through the cracks, shady club directors and coaches will keep raking it in, kids will suffer abuses, parents will suffer financial losses and US Women’s Soccer will continue to decline.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
With your points well taken try this….

Maybe these parents who are blowing 6 to 8K a year don’t have it to blow, but rather think of it as a gambling bet that their kid is going to get a full ride to a quality college or university.

A four-year tuition, books, traveling back-and-forth, and other expenses will exceed $200,000 easily.

I would think it is people with lesser means that are being suckered into thinking there’s this huge pot of gold at the end of a training session, that playing with team XYZ in league ABC only to find out it was all smoke and mirrors.

How is this possible that Long Island parents still believe this, when all you have to do is check social media “committed” posts to see that players on these LI teams almost never go to schools that are considered academically good on a national scale. Most of the commitments I see seem to be to schools that even mediocre high school non-athlete students can get into. Am I wrong here? Please someone correct me if so.

Also, the whole talent debate is pointless because most coaches in LI don’t develop talent and thus, one will never really know how much talent and potential really exists anywhere in the US until the system is radically disrupted to begin reversing the damaging effects of pay to play. The broken pyramid scheme of a system will continue without transformative innovation, along with a mandate and incentives from US soccer to change. Parents will not get smarter, clearly. So it’s the clubs, leagues and US soccer who have to lead change and find ways to incentivize and support better player development and equitable opportunities while de-incentivizing the bad behavior that perpetuates the problem. Look no further than the nominees for FIFA best female players in world (one out of a dozen is from the US) and the gradual decline of the WNT’s success internationally to see that the world has caught up. The rest of the world is beginning to beat us at women’s soccer, and we had a head start only because of our progressivism. If we don’t find new, radical ways to fix the broken system, talent will continue to slip through the cracks, shady club directors and coaches will keep raking it in, kids will suffer abuses, parents will suffer financial losses and US Women’s Soccer will continue to decline.


I agree with your post and its the PAY to PLAY that has set soccer back big time. Everyone has their hand in the cookie jar and playing the sport at the youth level the right way is not a priority by no means. If you are not taught the right way its very hard to compete with countries that are teaching the proper way from a very early age. Look at some of the people across the sidelines and sharing the sidelines with you. Is there really hope for this to change when most adults have no idea what real soccer looks like and the ones that do know that its profits over quality. The sport is not being taught or played here on LI or most areas we travel to that I am certain of.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
With your points well taken try this….

Maybe these parents who are blowing 6 to 8K a year don’t have it to blow, but rather think of it as a gambling bet that their kid is going to get a full ride to a quality college or university.

A four-year tuition, books, traveling back-and-forth, and other expenses will exceed $200,000 easily.

I would think it is people with lesser means that are being suckered into thinking there’s this huge pot of gold at the end of a training session, that playing with team XYZ in league ABC only to find out it was all smoke and mirrors.

How is this possible that Long Island parents still believe this, when all you have to do is check social media “committed” posts to see that players on these LI teams almost never go to schools that are considered academically good on a national scale. Most of the commitments I see seem to be to schools that even mediocre high school non-athlete students can get into. Am I wrong here? Please someone correct me if so.

Also, the whole talent debate is pointless because most coaches in LI don’t develop talent and thus, one will never really know how much talent and potential really exists anywhere in the US until the system is radically disrupted to begin reversing the damaging effects of pay to play. The broken pyramid scheme of a system will continue without transformative innovation, along with a mandate and incentives from US soccer to change. Parents will not get smarter, clearly. So it’s the clubs, leagues and US soccer who have to lead change and find ways to incentivize and support better player development and equitable opportunities while de-incentivizing the bad behavior that perpetuates the problem. Look no further than the nominees for FIFA best female players in world (one out of a dozen is from the US) and the gradual decline of the WNT’s success internationally to see that the world has caught up. The rest of the world is beginning to beat us at women’s soccer, and we had a head start only because of our progressivism. If we don’t find new, radical ways to fix the broken system, talent will continue to slip through the cracks, shady club directors and coaches will keep raking it in, kids will suffer abuses, parents will suffer financial losses and US Women’s Soccer will continue to decline.


The academics being placed behind soccer at some of the worst schools you can send your kid is one of the biggest reasons why these Pay to Play organizations continue their sales pitch. Parents have been groomed and have influenced their own children to put soccer above academics. Children can play for their HS school and still play at most these colleges. I have heard of it and I watched it happen with a family we are close with that had both their son and daughter do this and they both went on to play in college after leaving their academies and just play for their HS. One is a starter at a D2 school and the other starts at a D3 school. They did this 100% with no assistance from the so called "Academies" on LI.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
With your points well taken try this….

Maybe these parents who are blowing 6 to 8K a year don’t have it to blow, but rather think of it as a gambling bet that their kid is going to get a full ride to a quality college or university.

A four-year tuition, books, traveling back-and-forth, and other expenses will exceed $200,000 easily.

I would think it is people with lesser means that are being suckered into thinking there’s this huge pot of gold at the end of a training session, that playing with team XYZ in league ABC only to find out it was all smoke and mirrors.

How is this possible that Long Island parents still believe this, when all you have to do is check social media “committed” posts to see that players on these LI teams almost never go to schools that are considered academically good on a national scale. Most of the commitments I see seem to be to schools that even mediocre high school non-athlete students can get into. Am I wrong here? Please someone correct me if so.

Also, the whole talent debate is pointless because most coaches in LI don’t develop talent and thus, one will never really know how much talent and potential really exists anywhere in the US until the system is radically disrupted to begin reversing the damaging effects of pay to play. The broken pyramid scheme of a system will continue without transformative innovation, along with a mandate and incentives from US soccer to change. Parents will not get smarter, clearly. So it’s the clubs, leagues and US soccer who have to lead change and find ways to incentivize and support better player development and equitable opportunities while de-incentivizing the bad behavior that perpetuates the problem. Look no further than the nominees for FIFA best female players in world (one out of a dozen is from the US) and the gradual decline of the WNT’s success internationally to see that the world has caught up. The rest of the world is beginning to beat us at women’s soccer, and we had a head start only because of our progressivism. If we don’t find new, radical ways to fix the broken system, talent will continue to slip through the cracks, shady club directors and coaches will keep raking it in, kids will suffer abuses, parents will suffer financial losses and US Women’s Soccer will continue to decline.


The academics being placed behind soccer at some of the worst schools you can send your kid is one of the biggest reasons why these Pay to Play organizations continue their sales pitch. Parents have been groomed and have influenced their own children to put soccer above academics. Children can play for their HS school and still play at most these colleges. I have heard of it and I watched it happen with a family we are close with that had both their son and daughter do this and they both went on to play in college after leaving their academies and just play for their HS. One is a starter at a D2 school and the other starts at a D3 school. They did this 100% with no assistance from the so called "Academies" on LI.

While I'm sure that it happens and will continue to do so on an extremely limited basis, it's not the norm of how players are recruited these days. To me, this is an outlier as the majority of players are now recruited at league showcases along with college ID camps. There is a TON of competition to get into top academic/athletic schools (Duke, Stanford, etc.). Not only do you have to be VERY smart, you also have to be a USWNT team or pool player to even considered, just look at their current rosters.

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What’s the best club to join for a player who’s just begun to have interest in playing soccer ? She’s very athletic.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What’s the best club to join for a player who’s just begun to have interest in playing soccer ? She’s very athletic.

What part of the island do you live?

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And when you say she has taken an interest — what level has she been playing at?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What’s the best club to join for a player who’s just begun to have interest in playing soccer ? She’s very athletic.
join your local town and play with school friends and neighbors OR join the kool aid brigade, pay more money than you need to at an academy. Either way she will not very likely end up being a pro player.

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You’re going to need to pay. So the “fix” is not to make it free.
But there needs to be a game model and training to that model.
The mls boys academies and the woman’s programs have academies attached to them.
Both are signing kids. You see top colleges starting to grab these kids over just ECNL.
The gatekeeping needs to end…if these kids love the game and make the investment within the academy….you should be creating consistent quality.

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Consistent quality is the key because Nassau and the surrounding boroughs depend on shameful EMSC as the top club of choice that allows their kids ECNL exposure. It isn't as easy as join, pay your fees, train and compete. They've got this dumb selectivity thing happening where they gatekeep only for the middle and upper class Caucasian families. After the Academy years, they will wean out the minority families to keep the majority of the teams on the girls side on the lighter shade. Look at your next game against East Meadow. Sell me the bridge when you can tell me that Nassau, Queens, Brooklyn and neighboring counties do not have minority kids that are good enough. It is just that they are not good enough for the EM gatekeepers to play at the ECNL. Those chances are reserved only for the Caucasian kids. And before you ask so where are all these aacademy minority kids going? Look at NYSC, SUSA, Auburndale, LISC clubs that are rostering the rejects who are not good enough for the Nassau county ECNL club. Rasism does not exist there(but they do have other problems)

Either way avoid the kool aid brigade if your kid loves the sport and avoid these toxic people.

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Insert eyes wide open emoji here!! I am skeptical when it comes to postings on the net. This one though is heavy.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Consistent quality is the key because Nassau and the surrounding boroughs depend on shameful EMSC as the top club of choice that allows their kids ECNL exposure. It isn't as easy as join, pay your fees, train and compete. They've got this dumb selectivity thing happening where they gatekeep only for the middle and upper class Caucasian families. After the Academy years, they will wean out the minority families to keep the majority of the teams on the girls side on the lighter shade. Look at your next game against East Meadow. Sell me the bridge when you can tell me that Nassau, Queens, Brooklyn and neighboring counties do not have minority kids that are good enough. It is just that they are not good enough for the EM gatekeepers to play at the ECNL. Those chances are reserved only for the Caucasian kids. And before you ask so where are all these aacademy minority kids going? Look at NYSC, SUSA, Auburndale, LISC clubs that are rostering the rejects who are not good enough for the Nassau county ECNL club. Rasism does not exist there(but they do have other problems)

Either way avoid the kool aid brigade if your kid loves the sport and avoid these toxic people.
There are many factors none of which are racist related. Maybe some families can't afford the high cost of joining and related costs of playing high level ECNL, commitment to travel (airline and hotels), can't make the practice times or traveling back and forth to practice is too far? There are teams on L.I where 99% are from hispanic heritage, are they racists for not having Caucasians, Asians or other minorities? Please STFU with the racist rhetoric!!

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There was an article or rather a story in, I believe, Newsday last week where Crystal Dunn discussed this very issue, the lack of affordability of youth soccer for minorities among the SUSA-like academies when it comes to minorities.

I'll see if I can find the article and add to this thread, likewise if you have a Newsday digital subscription you can do the same.

Is there racism in youth soccer? IMO, I would have to say yes, and if you look at team pictures, especially on the girls side it is obvious as the pictures dont lie.

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Here you go......

LI's Crystal Dunn helps U.S. women's soccer try to overcome past lack of diversity


PORTLAND, Ore. — Crystal Dunn was often the only Black girl on her youth soccer clubs, and even when she finally made it to the national team, she did her own hair and makeup for photo shoots because “there wasn't someone set up for me."

While the U.S. national team has steadily become more representative, Dunn says there's still work to be done. That starts with making sure young women of color feel included all the way down to the youth level.

“I had very supportive parents who explained to me that, 'This is OK, you are still welcome in this sport. And just because there aren’t many people that look like you, this is still your game,'" said Dunn, a native of Rockville Centre. That support was key to her success "because honestly at the end of the day, it’s pretty lonely to feel like you’re the only one in this space and to not feel as if you belong.”

Women’s soccer in the United States has long had a diversity problem: The sport's pay-to-play model means that it's expensive, especially at higher levels. Club teams and traveling teams can cost thousands of dollars in some cases. Almost from the start, players without financial resources — including many from marginalized communities — are left behind.

Even U.S. Soccer President Cindy Parlow Cone has lamented that American soccer is seen as a “rich, white kids’ sport.”
Dunn was among just five players of color out of 23 on the roster for the U.S. team that won the World Cup in 2019. In contrast, France had 12.
The most recent U.S. roster had 10 women of color — including young stars Trinity Rodman, Naomi Girma and Mallory (Pugh) Swanson — as the team readies for this summer's World Cup. The United States will face New Zealand twice next week as the teams ramp up for the tournament, which will co-hosted by Australia and New Zealand.

“Representation matters,” said Sophia Smith, who had a team-high 11 goals for the United States last year and won U.S. Soccer's Female Player of the Year award. “And I think for young girls to be able to look on the screen or come to a game and see a lot of people that look different, it’s great.”
The growing representation has helped diversify a team that included fewer than a dozen total Black players in its entire history before 2012.

The pool of players talented enough to each the highest level in America — the national team and the National Women's Soccer League — is already small. The exclusionary nature of youth soccer makes it even smaller.

The pay-to-play structure “does leave a lot of marginalized minority communities in a pickle” because of the high costs, Dunn said. "And if I didn’t have parents who could dish out three, four or five grand a year, I don’t know that I can sit here and say that I would have continued playing this sport.”

Parlow Cone said at a youth sports panel last year that the U.S. federation is studying access to the game.

“A lot of it comes down to how our sport is viewed, marketing, and how do we shift that thinking from that it’s a rich white kids' sport to this is a sport that is literally played in every country around the world?" she said. “And as the most diverse country in the world here in the U.S., how do we change that focus to making sure that every kid feels welcomed into our game?"

Ed Foster-Simeon, CEO of the U.S. Soccer Foundation, is among those trying to make soccer more accessible to communities that haven't traditionally been involved.

The foundation’s Soccer for Success program has worked with more than 400,000 children — 90% of them from communities of color — since 2008. The program expects to serve more than 100,000 kids this year.

The foundation says that more than 121,000 girls from underserved communities have benefited from its programs over the past three years — part of its United For Girls initiative launched after the 2019 World Cup. Additionally, the foundation has engaged 5,475 coaches who identify as women or nonbinary over that period.

The foundation's goal is not to develop elite talent but to bring the game to more kids, particularly those in communities with fewer resources, he said.
In the last few years, “clearer and clearer pathways” have emerged for talented young people, Foster-Simeon said. “But I think our biggest challenge still today is that we’re only scratching the surface in terms of participation. We are not reaching enough kids.”

Indeed, much of the work with girls is being done at the grassroots level.

Shannon Boxx, who was enshrined last year into the National Soccer Hall of Fame, played on the national team from 2003 to 2015. She's on the board of Bridge City Soccer in Portland — which aims to bring girls into the game.

She remembers moments on the national team when she noticed she was the only person of color present.

“For me, it was just a big weight that I was willing to have, but I remember feeling like, OK, when we’re signing autographs, I’m searching for those kids that are of color because I want them to know that they can do this,” she said. “And I might be the only one right now, but that’s not going to be the way it is in the future.”

Shawna Gordon, a former pro who played for Sky Blue (now Gotham FC) in the National Women's Soccer League, started the nonprofit Football For Her in Southern California to mentor young players on and off the pitch — regardless of socioeconomic status. Football For Her takes a whole person approach, addressing nutrition and mental health, in addition to playing skills.

“It's a challenge to be playing with hard players, like they're all talented in their own ways. And for me, that gets to help me find my why,” said Amber Ramirez, 13, who attended a Friday night Soccer For Her program last fall.

There's evidence those efforts may be working. Ten years ago, just 24% of Division I women’s soccer players were nonwhite. The number grew to 34% last season. But many believe stopgap measures are not the answer. They want to reconsider the pay-to-play model.

The pay-to-play model "is completely endemic to the issues that we’re having, so how do we try to adjust it?” said Kate Markgraf, general manager of the U.S. women. "I think we’re finally at a point now where we’re willing — not as U.S. Soccer, but I think as a society — our eyes are open in a way that they never have been.”

Dunn is hopeful. When she first joined the national team, there were many fewer women of color in the sport and even fewer who were playing at the highest levels.

It’s important to celebrate progress, she said, "but it's also important to continue pushing, pushing for more and pushing for more women of color to be able to have access to the sport.”

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Originally Posted by Larry Miller
There was an article or rather a story in, I believe, Newsday last week where Crystal Dunn discussed this very issue, the lack of affordability of youth soccer for minorities among the SUSA-like academies when it comes to minorities.

I'll see if I can find the article and add to this thread, likewise if you have a Newsday digital subscription you can do the same.

Is there racism in youth soccer? IMO, I would have to say yes, and if you look at team pictures, especially on the girls side it is obvious as the pictures dont lie.
which team pictures? Brentwood, Elmont, Uniondale to name a few.

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Poster isn’t lying. Looking at East Meadow pics and their teams are all the same. No wonder all the EMSC is known to have bad teams, it’s not the training. Lacking diversity for starters.

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It’s not just as simple as racism though….it takes bags of money to keep up with this sport at the highest level.
…but you can find alternatives that are less and it can get your kid to be seen.
It’s not just club politics gate keeping kids it is also leagues gate keeping clubs.
Barca has had such a battle with this. They have hands down the best academy training, but can’t get passed the gatekeeping.
Then they develop a good player…and the player leaves for the club with the league.

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There is plenty of research that shows how diversity in corporate workplaces reduces “groupthink” and ultimately leads to smarter, more productive teams. It’s not hard to imagine that the same would be true on other kinds of teams, especially in soccer, which should be a creative sport (but often isn’t for U.S. youth teams). So league and club leadership would likely have higher performing teams if they made diversity more of a priority.

The gatekeeping problem is more complex. Essentially if the goal is to get on a good college team, the national team, and/or the NWSL, the leagues and clubs need to prioritize diversity, but so do US Soccer, colleges and the NWSL. There has to be buy-in across the board and US Soccer has to really figure out how to incentivize all parties involved with research proving diverse teams are more successful. But also, of course, US Soccer, the NWSL, colleges the youth leagues and clubs also have to actively fundraise for this cause because scholarship money and aid for less privileged players has to come from somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not just as simple as racism though….it takes bags of money to keep up with this sport at the highest level.
…but you can find alternatives that are less and it can get your kid to be seen.
It’s not just club politics gate keeping kids it is also leagues gate keeping clubs.
Barca has had such a battle with this. They have hands down the best academy training, but can’t get passed the gatekeeping.
Then they develop a good player…and the player leaves for the club with the league.


Agreed! They need their own facility like SUSA.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not just as simple as racism though….it takes bags of money to keep up with this sport at the highest level.
…but you can find alternatives that are less and it can get your kid to be seen.
It’s not just club politics gate keeping kids it is also leagues gate keeping clubs.
Barca has had such a battle with this. They have hands down the best academy training, but can’t get passed the gatekeeping.
Then they develop a good player…and the player leaves for the club with the league.


Agreed! They need their own facility like SUSA.

Barca has lots of money. They have very deep pockets. Why don’t they just buy the SUSA facility? Because as I hear the rumors around town, that’s ultimately what Glenn Schneider would like to do. Case solved.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Poster isn’t lying. Looking at East Meadow pics and their teams are all the same. No wonder all the EMSC is known to have bad teams, it’s not the training. Lacking diversity for starters.
Team pics is what determines racism? Have you seen team pics of NBA or NFL ??

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I have also taken a look at the other LI teams, clubs and tournaments. Sorry to say but it is obvious to me that some type of cleansing is being practiced there at East Meadow. Gatekeeping is something that can only turn into hate keeping for the next generation. The adults at EM responsible for this are not aware of the long term danger. Those coaches should never be allowed to work in anything Soccer related. Just by being associated with this practise at the youth soccer level shows they can be dangerous individuals. Where is the Fox News segment-shame shame when you need it.

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