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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to satisfy my own curiosity how are Referees scheduled? Is it first come first serve, by age, by level of play, by league? Just trying to see into the future as to who will be hit first.

I hope this answers your question. Please keep in mind the serious shortage of referees. NOTE: that the bottom of the list will be the Grossman Money Grab League, which does not appear that they will have referees. Buyer be very aware....

Attached PDF document
referee priority.pdf (127.57 KB, 74 downloads)
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to satisfy my own curiosity how are Referees scheduled? Is it first come first serve, by age, by level of play, by league? Just trying to see into the future as to who will be hit first.

They try to match up games with referees based on location and experience. Meaning that someone who lives in central Nassau will try to be matched up with games that are in central Nassau and the newer refs will be given the younger age groups while the more experienced/higher ranking will be given older age groups. The level of game also comes into play as they are generally not going to be giving a brand new ref something like a high level state cup game. It doesn't always work out that way but that's the rough plan.

As of this morning there are close to 20 games without CR's, not terrible, but there are roughly 130 games missing AR's, with most of them missing both AR's.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to satisfy my own curiosity how are Referees scheduled? Is it first come first serve, by age, by level of play, by league? Just trying to see into the future as to who will be hit first.

They try to match up games with referees based on location and experience. Meaning that someone who lives in central Nassau will try to be matched up with games that are in central Nassau and the newer refs will be given the younger age groups while the more experienced/higher ranking will be given older age groups. The level of game also comes into play as they are generally not going to be giving a brand new ref something like a high level state cup game. It doesn't always work out that way but that's the rough plan.

As of this morning there are close to 20 games without CR's, not terrible, but there are roughly 130 games missing AR's, with most of them missing both AR's.

Referees also have the option to limit how far they are willing to travel for a game so assignments may be limited due to that.

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LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

Talk directly to whoever assigns those games by you. Everywhere is different if they will use them or maybe they only play when you are already busy with other things.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks


Minimum age is 14 for travel. Intramurals however are less formalized, you don't need certification, making it a good starting point. Contact your local intramural program. Most are desperate for more refs.

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Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

Your 13 year old sounds like a can do kind of child! He is the minimum age. Here’s a link-

https://learning.ussoccer.com/referee/courses/available/6/list?current_page=1&per_page=20&primary_location_state=NY&statuses=scheduled,application,registration,waitlist,closed,invitation

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

Your 13 year old sounds like a can do kind of child! He is the minimum age. Here’s a link-

https://learning.ussoccer.com/referee/courses/available/6/list?current_page=1&per_page=20&primary_location_state=NY&statuses=scheduled,application,registration,waitlist,closed,invitation

USSF is 13 but isn't ENYYSA 14?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

Your 13 year old sounds like a can do kind of child! He is the minimum age. Here’s a link-

https://learning.ussoccer.com/referee/courses/available/6/list?current_page=1&per_page=20&primary_location_state=NY&statuses=scheduled,application,registration,waitlist,closed,invitation

USSF is 13 but isn't ENYYSA 14?

NY requires 14 years of age

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, My 13 year old came to me the other day asking to learn to be a ref. They remembered the young refs from intramurals. Can they start that young and if so, do you have any info you can share. Is there a local certification or is it US soccer thing. Thanks

Your 13 year old sounds like a can do kind of child! He is the minimum age. Here’s a link-

https://learning.ussoccer.com/referee/courses/available/6/list?current_page=1&per_page=20&primary_location_state=NY&statuses=scheduled,application,registration,waitlist,closed,invitation

USSF is 13 but isn't ENYYSA 14?

NY requires 14 years of age
Yes but I believe he can take the class and then start reffing in Spring of 2022 especially since this is 2022 certification and I assume he turns 14 in that year. Also encourage him to get training with your local club as an intramural referee.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

LIRef77, correct me if I am wrong...but would that be a

(1) would that be a pay cut?
(2) since we are short of refs, down 40% accord to the ENYYSA Ref Assoc., why would we have CRs hanging around when we need more games covered?

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talking about pay, What do the Ar's and CR's make now?

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Originally Posted by Larry Miller
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

LIRef77, correct me if I am wrong...but would that be a

(1) would that be a pay cut?
(2) since we are short of refs, down 40% accord to the ENYYSA Ref Assoc., why would we have CRs hanging around when we need more games covered?

Yes ARs make less money than CRs so it is a pay cut. I think part of the reason we are short ARs is that many young referees are also dropping out, hence an increased demand for ARs. Working games above U15 or so can be quite challenging without ARs, it can be done but it takes experience and poise. Also if someone does not want to accept an assignment because of less than ideal conditions they can and they have.

As far as assigning more CRs as ARs that does not solve the overall referee shortage, we still need CRs. I also think in this COVID era that many referees have not returned, many are retiring and many are just quitting.

Refereeing is not for everyone, it can be challenging and is not getting easier for inexperienced referees. I am somewhat surprised that really nothing has been to further incentivize current referees and also incentivize people to become referees. The current cost of a referee is TINY compared to all the money spent in the YOUTH SOCCER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. In my opinion that is just not being addressed.

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

LIRef77, correct me if I am wrong...but would that be a

(1) would that be a pay cut?
(2) since we are short of refs, down 40% accord to the ENYYSA Ref Assoc., why would we have CRs hanging around when we need more games covered?

Yes ARs make less money than CRs so it is a pay cut. I think part of the reason we are short ARs is that many young referees are also dropping out, hence an increased demand for ARs. Working games above U15 or so can be quite challenging without ARs, it can be done but it takes experience and poise. Also if someone does not want to accept an assignment because of less than ideal conditions they can and they have.

As far as assigning more CRs as ARs that does not solve the overall referee shortage, we still need CRs. I also think in this COVID era that many referees have not returned, many are retiring and many are just quitting.

Refereeing is not for everyone, it can be challenging and is not getting easier for inexperienced referees. I am somewhat surprised that really nothing has been to further incentivize current referees and also incentivize people to become referees. The current cost of a referee is TINY compared to all the money spent in the YOUTH SOCCER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. In my opinion that is just not being addressed.


Agreed that we are short ARs - too many games - but I have heard more than a fare share of my fellow refs complain that they are not getting enough games some weekends. It might be a matter of logistics. If I get assigned 4 U10 games from 9 AM until 2 PM at Soccer Park in Plainview and my availability is all day it is rare that games get added so I might self assign as an AR for a game after 2 PM. I think the assigner isn't seeing that I am still available because there are too many games to assign. I don't know how the Arbiter assigning app works from an assigner POV but there must be some way to see what refs are available vs what games need ARS. As a CR if you make yourself available then you are available as a CR and/or an AR - yes it is less $ but for those that want to fill up their schedule it makes sense. Every week there are email blasts about countless AR open spots.

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looking at todays begging sheet, 208 games, not even counting EDP, are missing one or both AR's for this coming weekend.


If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

LIRef77, correct me if I am wrong...but would that be a

(1) would that be a pay cut?
(2) since we are short of refs, down 40% accord to the ENYYSA Ref Assoc., why would we have CRs hanging around when we need more games covered?

Yes ARs make less money than CRs so it is a pay cut. I think part of the reason we are short ARs is that many young referees are also dropping out, hence an increased demand for ARs. Working games above U15 or so can be quite challenging without ARs, it can be done but it takes experience and poise. Also if someone does not want to accept an assignment because of less than ideal conditions they can and they have.

As far as assigning more CRs as ARs that does not solve the overall referee shortage, we still need CRs. I also think in this COVID era that many referees have not returned, many are retiring and many are just quitting.

Refereeing is not for everyone, it can be challenging and is not getting easier for inexperienced referees. I am somewhat surprised that really nothing has been to further incentivize current referees and also incentivize people to become referees. The current cost of a referee is TINY compared to all the money spent in the YOUTH SOCCER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. In my opinion that is just not being addressed.


LIRef77, with all due respect, LISRA refused numerous offers from BOTN to promote referring and was offered gratis, a relationship with BOTN many years ago only to have Joan Czach use her dominance & influence over Nick & especially Nancy Apostolides not to interact with BOTN. John Senenglaub was also a huge obstacle.

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LIRef77, with all due respect, LISRA refused numerous offers from BOTN to promote referring and was offered gratis, a relationship with BOTN many years ago only to have Joan Czach use her dominance & influence over Nick & especially Nancy Apostolides not to interact with BOTN. John Senenglaub was also a huge obstacle.

Perhaps it is time to try again? Joan has retired so maybe, just maybe, with the dearth of CR's, AR's and lack of new blood, the new regime will be open to discussion. Something has to be done. We can't keep blaming COVID, retirements, bad spectators. Nobody really does anything. There is no recruitment, incentives, etc. Find a way to fix the problem instead of pissing and moaning about it. LIJSL and LISRA reading this???

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Larry Miller
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If they keep sending CR's out with no AR's to help them, you are going to start seeing more CR's quit, or at least cut back on their workload.

Also need to assign more CRs as ARs. If a CR shows availability and assigner does not have games as a center to give, AR spots should be filled.

LIRef77, correct me if I am wrong...but would that be a

(1) would that be a pay cut?
(2) since we are short of refs, down 40% accord to the ENYYSA Ref Assoc., why would we have CRs hanging around when we need more games covered?

Yes ARs make less money than CRs so it is a pay cut. I think part of the reason we are short ARs is that many young referees are also dropping out, hence an increased demand for ARs. Working games above U15 or so can be quite challenging without ARs, it can be done but it takes experience and poise. Also if someone does not want to accept an assignment because of less than ideal conditions they can and they have.

As far as assigning more CRs as ARs that does not solve the overall referee shortage, we still need CRs. I also think in this COVID era that many referees have not returned, many are retiring and many are just quitting.

Refereeing is not for everyone, it can be challenging and is not getting easier for inexperienced referees. I am somewhat surprised that really nothing has been to further incentivize current referees and also incentivize people to become referees. The current cost of a referee is TINY compared to all the money spent in the YOUTH SOCCER INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. In my opinion that is just not being addressed.


Agreed that we are short ARs - too many games - but I have heard more than a fare share of my fellow refs complain that they are not getting enough games some weekends. It might be a matter of logistics. If I get assigned 4 U10 games from 9 AM until 2 PM at Soccer Park in Plainview and my availability is all day it is rare that games get added so I might self assign as an AR for a game after 2 PM. I think the assigner isn't seeing that I am still available because there are too many games to assign. I don't know how the Arbiter assigning app works from an assigner POV but there must be some way to see what refs are available vs what games need ARS. As a CR if you make yourself available then you are available as a CR and/or an AR - yes it is less $ but for those that want to fill up their schedule it makes sense. Every week there are email blasts about countless AR open spots.


It's probably more a matter of the assignor feeling guilty piling on more games without asking when you were already given four or five to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, with all due respect, LISRA refused numerous offers from BOTN to promote referring and was offered gratis, a relationship with BOTN many years ago only to have Joan Czach use her dominance & influence over Nick & especially Nancy Apostolides not to interact with BOTN. John Senenglaub was also a huge obstacle.

Perhaps it is time to try again? Joan has retired so maybe, just maybe, with the dearth of CR's, AR's and lack of new blood, the new regime will be open to discussion. Something has to be done. We can't keep blaming COVID, retirements, bad spectators. Nobody really does anything. There is no recruitment, incentives, etc. Find a way to fix the problem instead of pissing and moaning about it. LIJSL and LISRA reading this???


There was also a Cathy Caldwell heading up LISRA who also turned her back on BOTN.

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Originally Posted by Larry Miller
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LIRef77, with all due respect, LISRA refused numerous offers from BOTN to promote referring and was offered gratis, a relationship with BOTN many years ago only to have Joan Czach use her dominance & influence over Nick & especially Nancy Apostolides not to interact with BOTN. John Senenglaub was also a huge obstacle.

Perhaps it is time to try again? Joan has retired so maybe, just maybe, with the dearth of CR's, AR's and lack of new blood, the new regime will be open to discussion. Something has to be done. We can't keep blaming COVID, retirements, bad spectators. Nobody really does anything. There is no recruitment, incentives, etc. Find a way to fix the problem instead of pissing and moaning about it. LIJSL and LISRA reading this???


There was also a Cathy Caldwell heading up LISRA who also turned her back on BOTN.

Not sure of the politics involved here which I avoid like the plague but this is not the first time you have mentioned this over the years Larry. Full disclosure, I am a LISRA member in good standing I don’t know the reasons behind it.

As far as recruiting it really has not been a problem as it has actually been stepped up and classes are constantly being held. Pre-Covid in person classes went on almost all year round. Since last year Eastern New York is now in control of training and I am sure they may still have the same problem. The more that are recruited the more drop out. Too many people quit before even finishing a season, coupled with the huge attrition rates of baby boomers and younger referees that adds to the problem. We need a lot of young people as ARs and for small sided games to be used as CRs but that participation rate is also plummeting.

I don’t have all the answers but certainly a less hostile work environment cannot hurt. Let’s be honest all you folks out there see it all the time. Would you want your kids to be referees?

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How did I miss this? Larry just by having these boards and by bringing this to the attention of the soccer community YOU have helped the situation whether an organization wants to engage with you does not matter. You have given this subject the attention it demands. For that I thank you.

While I am not the OP on this forum you have given referees and the greater soccer community a platform to discuss the reasons behind the referee shortage and what can be done about it.

No organization can fix this by itself. It will take leagues, clubs and parents to realize that something needs to change by first acknowledging the problem and then figuring out how to fix it.

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Please understand that younger referee's are required to update their availability on a regular basis. This is done on the online assigning system that is used to assign games to officials. Fact is - many DO NOT do this effectively - if at all. Many do a poor job and decline games due to conflict or another reason. Many FORGET to open their availability - or block when not available due to practice or other. In a perfect world -teens would login and update this on a regular basis. This is the ongoing battle between assignors and officials. Phone calls slow down the assigning process. If you accept games - you keep getting more as you are considered reliable. If you decline a few games - then you are at the bottom of the list (reliability in question). If you decline more games that you accept - you are no longer considered for future assignments as unreliable. Assignors get tired and lose interest as well. Too many teens cant keep their schedules / availability updated. A few minutes work is all that it takes. Some parents have taken this task over for their teens. On top of that - teens being yelled at all day long perhaps causes them to say - id rather hang out with my friends than to make a few lousy bucks to only get criticized and yelled at all day long. After a tough game - referee's wont show for the rest of their day or weekend. What a shame.
At one time - being a referee / official was treated with respect. Too many parents and coaches cant keep their mouths shut. This is no longer the case. You feel entitled to become a spoiled brat cause you cant stand to see a foul called against your son or daughter. Imagine if you will that your father / mother / uncle / neice / brother / son was that guy in the middle or that girl with a flag. Would you treat them with such disrespect? Would you want them to be criticized like that. You reap what you sow.

Its about time that everyone just STFU. You are NOT entitled to your opinion when you are coaching or watching. Nobody cares what you have to say from the sidelines. You embarrass yourselves when you act like spoiled brats when your comments are both unreasonable & disrespectful. If someone you know is an official - would you walk up to them in the middle of the street and act that way? why is it ok that when they put on a referee shirt that its OK. Think about it. STFU or be gone. STAY HOME.

This will get much worse before it will get better - I can promise you that.

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Still wondering, what do CR's and AR's make per game?

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