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Where are all the Referees?
by Anonymous - 10/16/21 07:16 PM
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by Anonymous - 10/16/21 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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HAHAHA - I coached for 15 years and have been a ref for 10 years. My teams never lost because of a ref - if they lost it was because they didn't execute, the other team was just better or I had a poor game plan/didn't prepare well. It is just a game knucklehead. If kids enjoy it, they stay with it and have a better chance of success. if winning is the end-all-be-all, eventually they will burn out or come across better teams who beat them....and then what?
ONE time, I could probably rightfully accuse a ref of costing us a game. It was U10 or U11, so the halves were only 25 minutes (if that). Our team got the go ahead goal with less than two minutes left in the championship match. They kick off, get into added time (by a minute or more), we get possession and get the ball down to the corner. Ref doesn't blow the whistle. There ended up being 4-5 minutes of added time (again, a 25 minute half). Funny, it was JUST enough time for the other team to score. Coincidentally, that club was the host club for the tournament. We ended up losing (can't remember if it was extra time or PKs). Yes, you can make the argument that we should have scored/stopped them from scoring after, but we HAD done our part.

Does it really matter? Nope. But yes, refs do the ability to affect the game if they so choose.

I was thinking same thing. In a low scoring sport like soccer I've seen ref's award 2 baloney PK's in the first 5 minutes to the home team. Game over 5 minutes into the game. Then you see the same play the ref awarded PKs for reversed to the other team and nothing gets called. Soccer refs definitely can cost teams games. I've also seen the extended overtime until the home team won. Does it mean its there fault that a bad pass was made or a player missed an open shot, NO, but in such a low scoring sport refs can definitely decide the game with bad calls. More often than not that isn't the case but it happens.

If you honestly think that referees go to games with the mindset of screwing over a team you are the reason that referees quit. Get over that nonsense
I'd say 99.9999% of the referees want to do a fair/good job. However, there are referees who are on power trips, who don't understand the rules, who refuse to leave the "circle of excellence", etc, etc. They are very few and far between, but if you think they're not out there, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'm also willing to wager the majority of parents and coaches you encounter are no problem. It's the few that spoil it for the many (on both sides).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
HAHAHA - I coached for 15 years and have been a ref for 10 years. My teams never lost because of a ref - if they lost it was because they didn't execute, the other team was just better or I had a poor game plan/didn't prepare well. It is just a game knucklehead. If kids enjoy it, they stay with it and have a better chance of success. if winning is the end-all-be-all, eventually they will burn out or come across better teams who beat them....and then what?
ONE time, I could probably rightfully accuse a ref of costing us a game. It was U10 or U11, so the halves were only 25 minutes (if that). Our team got the go ahead goal with less than two minutes left in the championship match. They kick off, get into added time (by a minute or more), we get possession and get the ball down to the corner. Ref doesn't blow the whistle. There ended up being 4-5 minutes of added time (again, a 25 minute half). Funny, it was JUST enough time for the other team to score. Coincidentally, that club was the host club for the tournament. We ended up losing (can't remember if it was extra time or PKs). Yes, you can make the argument that we should have scored/stopped them from scoring after, but we HAD done our part.

Does it really matter? Nope. But yes, refs do the ability to affect the game if they so choose.

I was thinking same thing. In a low scoring sport like soccer I've seen ref's award 2 baloney PK's in the first 5 minutes to the home team. Game over 5 minutes into the game. Then you see the same play the ref awarded PKs for reversed to the other team and nothing gets called. Soccer refs definitely can cost teams games. I've also seen the extended overtime until the home team won. Does it mean its there fault that a bad pass was made or a player missed an open shot, NO, but in such a low scoring sport refs can definitely decide the game with bad calls. More often than not that isn't the case but it happens.

If you honestly think that referees go to games with the mindset of screwing over a team you are the reason that referees quit. Get over that nonsense

If your not a ref or have kid who refs then here is the reality -- a lot of referees, especially ARs who don't drive yet take games close to or in their home towns. So are they there to screw the away team, NO because they don't even know who the away team is. Will they help the home team because they know the coach/kid/parent etc, Yes. A call that might be made in a game where you have no connection to either teams sometimes doesn't get called when you are refereeing amongst friends. That tackle that Franks kid just made inside the 18 isn't going to be called a penalty today unfortunately. That hand ball by my cousins daughter was unintentional. There are a lot of subjective calls in soccer and human nature does come into play. One just hopes if a ref blows a call against one side they will make good and give something to the other team. These are not professional referees so expect bad calls and then deal with it like adults, not kids. Not just soccer, all sports.

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We had a game last season that blew my mind was U11. Our team was given a free kick, the other player refused to give 10 yards. Ref kept asking him, he kept saying no. Happened 3x then the ref says ok and now reverses his call and gives that player the free kick. Same game ball goes out of bounds, ref can't decide who went out on so has a parent show him a replay on his cell phone. U11 game. Still the same game all tied up other team kicks ball about 5 yards out of bounds, their coach tells the kids it's a throw in. One of their kids kicks the ball from out of bounds and goes through the side of the net. Ref calls it a goal, blows the whistle ends the game. Then proceeds to high five every player on that team. I hope that ref found something else to do

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
We had a game last season that blew my mind was U11. Our team was given a free kick, the other player refused to give 10 yards. Ref kept asking him, he kept saying no. Happened 3x then the ref says ok and now reverses his call and gives that player the free kick. Same game ball goes out of bounds, ref can't decide who went out on so has a parent show him a replay on his cell phone. U11 game. Still the same game all tied up other team kicks ball about 5 yards out of bounds, their coach tells the kids it's a throw in. One of their kids kicks the ball from out of bounds and goes through the side of the net. Ref calls it a goal, blows the whistle ends the game. Then proceeds to high five every player on that team. I hope that ref found something else to do

Sounds like a circus arrived in town

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Between the cjsl, lijsl, the nycsl, EDP, MLS next,
And on Sunday add the cosmopolitan and li mens leagues

There are about 350 youth/amateur mens games to be covered per weekend.

This is not counting other college high school and semi professional leagues such as the upsl, noel, etc.

Obviously you are going to get some terrible referees unless you decrease the amount of games per season

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In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Between the cjsl, lijsl, the nycsl, EDP, MLS next,
And on Sunday add the cosmopolitan and li mens leagues

There are about 350 youth/amateur mens games to be covered per weekend.

This is not counting other college high school and semi professional leagues such as the upsl, noel, etc.

Obviously you are going to get some terrible referees unless you decrease the amount of games per season


LIJSL alone has close to 800 games.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

Don't forget to add tournaments that usually happens on the same dates.

But, how do you decrease the amount of games? How do you sell it to parents who pay their fees which are getting increased every year? - Hey we have great news for you, your kids will be playing very few games in a season as we want to help them with the their development and based on the "latest studies" that what helps. Or, sorry parents, we can't figure how to cover games with refereeing and because of that we are cutting number of games for your kids.

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Exactly instead of playing Seven home and seven away they may have to settle for just seven games and played every two or three weekends and then the fee should be decreased

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

Don't forget to add tournaments that usually happens on the same dates.

But, how do you decrease the amount of games? How do you sell it to parents who pay their fees which are getting increased every year? - Hey we have great news for you, your kids will be playing very few games in a season as we want to help them with the their development and based on the "latest studies" that what helps. Or, sorry parents, we can't figure how to cover games with refereeing and because of that we are cutting number of games for your kids.

Your sarcasm is well deserved. Less games? NEVER HAPPENING. This is one of the reasons that ENYYSA's long standing policy is for no multi-game tournaments or cups during the seasonal year. There aren't enough refs for our local leagues, and bringing in the New Jersey based EDP Cup, managed by a private Florida sports company, using our physical and human resources is simply EDP being a group of greedy pricks.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Exactly instead of playing Seven home and seven away they may have to settle for just seven games and played every two or three weekends and then the fee should be decreased

Did he smoke a joint before posting this or did I smoke a joint before reading this? Maybe I cut too many math classes but I'll ask for the poster to offer up the start and end of a Fall & Spring schedule, taking into account State Cup and Tournament weekends, and the LI Cup.

Could be I'm missing something....s'plain me. Lucy!!

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the arrogance of some you LOL

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What I'm saying is if a group has eight teams in a conference usually you play seven home and seven away. Instead just play 7 games all season and maybe you play every two or three weekends a league game. So maybe one weekend will be for u8,9,10,11 and the next week u12,13,14. Etc

And when a team has an off week and they are not playing a league game then perhaps they can have a scrimmage game and use the coaches as referees

This will free up the referees and also make the league more exciting as the games will count more important rather than a bunch of meaningless games the whole season

If you need to cancel things likely cup and tournaments then do so the problem is there is too much money at stake

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

Don't forget to add tournaments that usually happens on the same dates.

But, how do you decrease the amount of games? How do you sell it to parents who pay their fees which are getting increased every year? - Hey we have great news for you, your kids will be playing very few games in a season as we want to help them with the their development and based on the "latest studies" that what helps. Or, sorry parents, we can't figure how to cover games with refereeing and because of that we are cutting number of games for your kids.

Here's some news for all you parents who have never trained soccer players - you should be training 2-3 times as much as you are playing. Yes - cut out the number of alphabet-soup leagues and pay-to-play clubs and limit players to ONE team. You will see better development, less injuries, less burn-out and less need for referees!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

Don't forget to add tournaments that usually happens on the same dates.

But, how do you decrease the amount of games? How do you sell it to parents who pay their fees which are getting increased every year? - Hey we have great news for you, your kids will be playing very few games in a season as we want to help them with the their development and based on the "latest studies" that what helps. Or, sorry parents, we can't figure how to cover games with refereeing and because of that we are cutting number of games for your kids.

Here's some news for all you parents who have never trained soccer players - you should be training 2-3 times as much as you are playing. Yes - cut out the number of alphabet-soup leagues and pay-to-play clubs and limit players to ONE team. You will see better development, less injuries, less burn-out and less need for referees!

Sounds like a real plan. Oh, wait, who will be paying once you liquidate pay-to-play clubs and what will be available after that.
The other question I have for you is what development? Development for what and what you will do with that development.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In addition to my previous post the only real solution is all of the League's have their schedules well in advanced and decrease the amount of games this way all referees can be assigned throughout the season and the better referees can be shared equally

Don't forget to add tournaments that usually happens on the same dates.

But, how do you decrease the amount of games? How do you sell it to parents who pay their fees which are getting increased every year? - Hey we have great news for you, your kids will be playing very few games in a season as we want to help them with the their development and based on the "latest studies" that what helps. Or, sorry parents, we can't figure how to cover games with refereeing and because of that we are cutting number of games for your kids.

Here's some news for all you parents who have never trained soccer players - you should be training 2-3 times as much as you are playing. Yes - cut out the number of alphabet-soup leagues and pay-to-play clubs and limit players to ONE team. You will see better development, less injuries, less burn-out and less need for referees!

The top 5, maybe 10 percent should be all in on that training to game ratio. For the rest of the kids it's all about fun and should for the most part 2:1 if not 1:1 practices to games.

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You guys are missing the big picture. Reducing the number of games is impossible. You have a supply problem. The supply of referees is low and dwindling. You do not solve the problem by reducing the demand because the demand is ever increasing. The youth soccer industrial complex continues to grow exponentially.

I have said this before:In other parts of the soccer world they don’t use ARs for players younger than 15 or 16. People have been deluded in to thinking that we need ARs for U12 games, this is silly especially when the supply of referees is low and continuing to decrease.

The reason youth soccer has exploded in this country is partly because adults like watching their kids play on the field. Teams play in 2 leagues! This never used to happen in the past. Parents want more games. more tournaments. A lot of this is driven by the adults that want more games for their viewing enjoyment. The increasing demand has been met with more leagues, more training companies, trainers, coaches and it is a multi billion dollar enterprise in our country.

The idea that you can dampen demand for more games is delusional. You just cannot turn back the clock.

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
You guys are missing the big picture. Reducing the number of games is impossible. You have a supply problem. The supply of referees is low and dwindling. You do not solve the problem by reducing the demand because the demand is ever increasing. The youth soccer industrial complex continues to grow exponentially.

I have said this before:In other parts of the soccer world they don’t use ARs for players younger than 15 or 16. People have been deluded in to thinking that we need ARs for U12 games, this is silly especially when the supply of referees is low and continuing to decrease.

The reason youth soccer has exploded in this country is partly because adults like watching their kids play on the field. Teams play in 2 leagues! This never used to happen in the past. Parents want more games. more tournaments. A lot of this is driven by the adults that want more games for their viewing enjoyment. The increasing demand has been met with more leagues, more training companies, trainers, coaches and it is a multi billion dollar enterprise in our country.

The idea that you can dampen demand for more games is delusional. You just cannot turn back the clock.

Agree with you. It could be combination of things like not using ARs for recreational level lets' say up to age 16 and for completive level up to age 14. Pressure clubs to work with their coaching staff much harder in regards how to control themselves during the game and make coaches coming to parents before every game and remind them to stay calm and positive. Can you imagine how it's going to look when a coach before the game asks parents to be cool and during the game go himself nuts.

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What people don’t get including Coaches is that screaming at the players with all sorts of conflicting instructions while the game is going on is counterproductive. Many players learn to ignore it as they get older because it can be overwhelming and confusing to them. Players develop soccer smarts at their own speed but you need to let them think for themselves on the field you cannot play the game for them so why the constant cacophony of instruction?

The best Coaches prepare their team for a game during practices and just let their team play and then maybe adjust things during halftime, by talking strategy and tactics.

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If it was free to become a ref, the numbers problem would be instantly solved. Course costs could be covered by a surcharge on player cards instead. But the truth is keeping things the way they are is making the right people both money and political power.

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
The best Coaches prepare their team for a game during practices and just let their team play and then maybe adjust things during halftime, by talking strategy and tactics.

Your fantasy is well deserved smile

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The problem with not having ARs until older ages is doing AR work at younger ages gives the new official a "training ground". I agree it's not a need per se to have ARs at U10-U12 (heck, we've had a couple HS V matches done as duals this year), but it does give newer refs a place to learn the skills needed. Or do you take this newly minted ref and their first AR slot is U15/U16?

Maybe it's a short term bandaid?

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what I never see questioned is how come so many other youth sports (Ice hockey, basketball, Football) all have more than one referee for even the youngest of ages. youth soccer expects one person to cover the whole field of play until it is 11 v 11?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
The best Coaches prepare their team for a game during practices and just let their team play and then maybe adjust things during halftime, by talking strategy and tactics.

Your fantasy is well deserved smile

It’s not a fantasy I have seen it and it is a thing of beauty and more prevalent than you think!

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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
The best Coaches prepare their team for a game during practices and just let their team play and then maybe adjust things during halftime, by talking strategy and tactics.

Your fantasy is well deserved smile

It’s not a fantasy I have seen it and it is a thing of beauty and more prevalent than you think!

Have 2 kids, one was playing on NPL team and 2nd is still playing in MLS next and myself doing some refereeing.
I am not saying it doesn't exist but, personally, sill have a hope to meet one some day. I've met a lot of coaches, who are truly wonderful people and they do as much as they can working with the kids but like I said I still have a hope to see "thing of beauty".
-Cheers

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