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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725757 08/20/19 01:58 PM
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"The best players will land at the best programs."

Really? There's 2 MLS academies in the NYC area... you think that's enough? You trust those academies scouting and coaching to know?

Interesting.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725765 08/20/19 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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"So playing Seacoast is meaningful? What MLS defines as meaningful and yours is vastly different."

Yup. Barcelona (the Catalonian one) plays in a regional league. They play against teams promoted into their level. They often beat teams 10-0. You think they complain about the league? Every opponent is a chance to learn something about the game... including being merciless and not wavering from your tactics just because the opponent isn't at your level.

MLS defines "meaningful" based on optics... they also hate losing to non MLS DA teams. They get beat by non-MLS clubs all the time.


Eh. MLS academy clubs are clearly superior, in aggregate, to non-MLS academy clubs. Based on the U17 final standings in 2017-18, the 20 MLS clubs had an average of 1.82 pts/game and a goal differential of +0.94/game. The 58 non-MLS clubs had an average of 1.3 pts/gm and -0.29 gd. Now granted, there are some average MLS clubs and there are some lousy MLS clubs, so looking at only the playoff qualifiers, the 14 MLS clubs (70% of all MLS clubs) had an average of 2.1 pts/gm and +1.42 gd. The 18 non-MLS clubs (31% of all non-MLS clubs) had an average of 1.86 pts/gm and a gd of 0.77. So what? So (1) even playoff non-MLS clubs are inferior to MLS clubs, and (2) the *best* non-MLS clubs are no better than the *average* MLS club, and that's not even really true because the MLS club record was skewed by NE Revs (7-7-15) and SJ (11-3-23).

Sure, U14 and below it's probably more mixed up but these results will hold true for U15 & U17 (I've never looked at U19). The best players will land at the best programs.



The DA is flawed and will continue to be flawed.

USA world rankings were higher before DA than after and that is a fact. Here it is.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-rank...men/index.html

Furthermore, MLS teams are stacked with foreign players who are paid more which should tell you what the MLS teams really think of "homegrown talent".

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725768 08/20/19 04:45 PM
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Furthermore, MLS teams are stacked with foreign players who are paid more which should tell you what the MLS teams really think of "homegrown talent"

Most MLS coaches don't know what they're doing... you expect them to be trusted judges of talent? MLS doesn't develop much talent, so why are people so ready to bow down and say MLS academies are the best by default?

Are they aggregators of talent they see as the best, yes. Do they develop that talent once they get it? Create Pros? The vast majority don't. So why do we assume whatever MLS DA wants to do really is in the best interest of the players? And if they aren't a pipeline for players into the first team, what's the point?

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725769 08/20/19 04:46 PM
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USA world rankings were higher before DA than after and that is a fact. Here it is.

They were also higher before MLS, A league based on parity (forced mediocrity), existed.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725776 08/20/19 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
USA world rankings were higher before DA than after and that is a fact. Here it is.

They were also higher before MLS, A league based on parity (forced mediocrity), existed.


Because the DA is full of the status quo idiots that have always been involved. They just rebrand themselves. And the DA clubs are run by huckster scam artists.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725800 08/21/19 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Furthermore, MLS teams are stacked with foreign players who are paid more which should tell you what the MLS teams really think of "homegrown talent"

Most MLS coaches don't know what they're doing... you expect them to be trusted judges of talent? MLS doesn't develop much talent, so why are people so ready to bow down and say MLS academies are the best by default?

Are they aggregators of talent they see as the best, yes. Do they develop that talent once they get it? Create Pros? The vast majority don't. So why do we assume whatever MLS DA wants to do really is in the best interest of the players? And if they aren't a pipeline for players into the first team, what's the point?


The better MLS clubs develop a few players as homegrowns that will do perfectly fine in the MLS. The unicorns like Pullisic that make significant money on the international stage are just that, unicorns.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725804 08/21/19 11:06 AM
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Because the DA is full of the status quo idiots that have always been involved. They just rebrand themselves. And the DA clubs are run by huckster scam artists.

Hehehe... that's a broad swipe, probably somewhat true. MLS for the most part is a sham, so is the federation, but our entire youth system is full of hucksters and scam artists. Not just the DA. All of it.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725809 08/21/19 11:32 AM
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Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725811 08/21/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA.

and MO 2005 beat three MLS teams last season .

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725812 08/21/19 11:58 AM
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"Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA."

There's not enough MLS DA teams to make the claim that the "best players" end up at MLS teams. There aren't even enough scouts to find the best players. If MLS clubs run up the score on the Non-MLS bottom feeders... yeah "statistcally" it might look like their better over all. But they aren't consistent. Montreal was dominant in u15 last year... crushed almost everyone. and they AREN'T from the United States. But they were the only MLS academy in the top 4 in their region. Only 3 in that region.

It's not consistent. And them deciding they ONLY really need to play each other because the quality is SOOOO much better, is silly. Some programs are very good sure. But that doesn't justify tiering the entire DA. Especially since they don't use promotion and relegation. They don't for the most part have residential programs, they aren't scouting nationally... I mean really scouting. MLS DA is a long way from being consistent and having a track record of development. They have a huge amount of player turnover. They're aggregators of talent, but that just gets them wins. And those players come from Non-MLS clubs. MLS academies don't start at u9.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725814 08/21/19 12:00 PM
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MO lost 4-0 in a friendly vs PDA

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725823 08/21/19 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA."

There's not enough MLS DA teams to make the claim that the "best players" end up at MLS teams. There aren't even enough scouts to find the best players. If MLS clubs run up the score on the Non-MLS bottom feeders... yeah "statistcally" it might look like their better over all. But they aren't consistent. Montreal was dominant in u15 last year... crushed almost everyone. and they AREN'T from the United States. But they were the only MLS academy in the top 4 in their region. Only 3 in that region.

It's not consistent. And them deciding they ONLY really need to play each other because the quality is SOOOO much better, is silly. Some programs are very good sure. But that doesn't justify tiering the entire DA. Especially since they don't use promotion and relegation. They don't for the most part have residential programs, they aren't scouting nationally... I mean really scouting. MLS DA is a long way from being consistent and having a track record of development. They have a huge amount of player turnover. They're aggregators of talent, but that just gets them wins. And those players come from Non-MLS clubs. MLS academies don't start at u9.



Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725827 08/21/19 02:53 PM
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"MO lost 4-0 in a friendly vs PDA"

Which age group? They had friendlies all weekend. They also tied 2-2.

And it's a FRIENDLY ... unlimited subs, players playing up, trying kids out in different positions. Kids playing in more than one game.

It doesn't matter.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725831 08/21/19 03:04 PM
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"Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed."

I believe it's this way for one simple reason. Our "Pro" teams aren't in an arms race to find the best kids and invest in them. It's based on parity. there's no competition, ti's designed to be as cheap as possible, no competition to sign the best players. If it wasn't single entity BS and clubs could make a money off the players they developed, if there was no [****] salary caps... etc. It would unleash the entire system. But until then we get petty turf wars and MLS dictating the entire landscape... because most of them are free-to-play. Big deal.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725834 08/21/19 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA.

and MO 2005 beat three MLS teams last season .


yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?

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