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USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020
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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725814 08/21/19 11:00 AM
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MO lost 4-0 in a friendly vs PDA

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725823 08/21/19 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA."

There's not enough MLS DA teams to make the claim that the "best players" end up at MLS teams. There aren't even enough scouts to find the best players. If MLS clubs run up the score on the Non-MLS bottom feeders... yeah "statistcally" it might look like their better over all. But they aren't consistent. Montreal was dominant in u15 last year... crushed almost everyone. and they AREN'T from the United States. But they were the only MLS academy in the top 4 in their region. Only 3 in that region.

It's not consistent. And them deciding they ONLY really need to play each other because the quality is SOOOO much better, is silly. Some programs are very good sure. But that doesn't justify tiering the entire DA. Especially since they don't use promotion and relegation. They don't for the most part have residential programs, they aren't scouting nationally... I mean really scouting. MLS DA is a long way from being consistent and having a track record of development. They have a huge amount of player turnover. They're aggregators of talent, but that just gets them wins. And those players come from Non-MLS clubs. MLS academies don't start at u9.



Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725827 08/21/19 01:53 PM
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"MO lost 4-0 in a friendly vs PDA"

Which age group? They had friendlies all weekend. They also tied 2-2.

And it's a FRIENDLY ... unlimited subs, players playing up, trying kids out in different positions. Kids playing in more than one game.

It doesn't matter.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725831 08/21/19 02:04 PM
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"Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed."

I believe it's this way for one simple reason. Our "Pro" teams aren't in an arms race to find the best kids and invest in them. It's based on parity. there's no competition, ti's designed to be as cheap as possible, no competition to sign the best players. If it wasn't single entity BS and clubs could make a money off the players they developed, if there was no [****] salary caps... etc. It would unleash the entire system. But until then we get petty turf wars and MLS dictating the entire landscape... because most of them are free-to-play. Big deal.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725834 08/21/19 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA.

and MO 2005 beat three MLS teams last season .


yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725837 08/21/19 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA."

There's not enough MLS DA teams to make the claim that the "best players" end up at MLS teams. There aren't even enough scouts to find the best players. If MLS clubs run up the score on the Non-MLS bottom feeders... yeah "statistcally" it might look like their better over all. But they aren't consistent. Montreal was dominant in u15 last year... crushed almost everyone. and they AREN'T from the United States. But they were the only MLS academy in the top 4 in their region. Only 3 in that region.

It's not consistent. And them deciding they ONLY really need to play each other because the quality is SOOOO much better, is silly. Some programs are very good sure. But that doesn't justify tiering the entire DA. Especially since they don't use promotion and relegation. They don't for the most part have residential programs, they aren't scouting nationally... I mean really scouting. MLS DA is a long way from being consistent and having a track record of development. They have a huge amount of player turnover. They're aggregators of talent, but that just gets them wins. And those players come from Non-MLS clubs. MLS academies don't start at u9.



Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed.



This is a different argument completely than what I was discussing, but worthwhile nonetheless. Many articles have highlighted the rising cost of youth sports participation, pricing out middle and working class families. USSF should be burned to the ground with their mismanagement of their mandate. But inherent with our national aversion to make any investment in sports (taxation!) you get these crappy outcomes, where the sport governing body sells it's soul to for-profit enterprises, but in return must protect their monopoly (our real national obsession - protect the rich white controlling shareholders) and you get a compromised "development academy" that doesn't pull in all the potential players for all the reasons you say.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725840 08/21/19 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Everyone needs to slow their roll. I was responding to a comment that non-MLS academy clubs beat MLS academy clubs "all the time". The data does not support that hypothesis at the older U15 & U17 age groups. I made no commentary about the quality of the DA program, nor any commentary about the quality of MLS DA coaching. I did, however, state that the best players will land at the best programs, where in the context of the comment "programs" is defined by the DA universe (i.e. all available DA teams), and "best" being, predominantly, MLS DA clubs, given both their track records and the (generally) no pay-to-play model. Of course there are great players and great clubs outside of DA."

There's not enough MLS DA teams to make the claim that the "best players" end up at MLS teams. There aren't even enough scouts to find the best players. If MLS clubs run up the score on the Non-MLS bottom feeders... yeah "statistcally" it might look like their better over all. But they aren't consistent. Montreal was dominant in u15 last year... crushed almost everyone. and they AREN'T from the United States. But they were the only MLS academy in the top 4 in their region. Only 3 in that region.

It's not consistent. And them deciding they ONLY really need to play each other because the quality is SOOOO much better, is silly. Some programs are very good sure. But that doesn't justify tiering the entire DA. Especially since they don't use promotion and relegation. They don't for the most part have residential programs, they aren't scouting nationally... I mean really scouting. MLS DA is a long way from being consistent and having a track record of development. They have a huge amount of player turnover. They're aggregators of talent, but that just gets them wins. And those players come from Non-MLS clubs. MLS academies don't start at u9.



Couldn't agree more. My son who plays DA was playing some street ball with some kids who frequently play at a field near my home and we were blown away with the talent level of most of these kids who do not play at any club because they couldn't afford it or their parent couldn't commit to traveling to practices because of work. So these kids clearly are not being scouted and any one of them would make a DA team. Therefore, I have to agree that US Soccer scouting is deeply flawed.



This is a different argument completely than what I was discussing, but worthwhile nonetheless. Many articles have highlighted the rising cost of youth sports participation, pricing out middle and working class families. USSF should be burned to the ground with their mismanagement of their mandate. But inherent with our national aversion to make any investment in sports (taxation!) you get these crappy outcomes, where the sport governing body sells it's soul to for-profit enterprises, but in return must protect their monopoly (our real national obsession - protect the rich white controlling shareholders) and you get a compromised "development academy" that doesn't pull in all the potential players for all the reasons you say.



US Soccer has a $140M cash stockpile they are sitting on right now. They'd rather hoard it and do one stop shopping at middling DA clubs for NT call ups. Talent identification and development is a joke here.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725848 08/21/19 05:54 PM
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"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725849 08/21/19 06:03 PM
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"US Soccer has a $140M cash stockpile they are sitting on right now. They'd rather hoard it and do one stop shopping at middling DA clubs for NT call ups. Talent identification and development is a joke here."

If US Soccer did its job... and created a system of leagues and competitions from youth to pro, based on merit... it would transform everything.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725864 08/21/19 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725869 08/22/19 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.

the 2005s NYCFC has been very consistent over the years .

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725872 08/22/19 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
MO lost 4-0 in a friendly vs PDA

just a friendly my friend season just started

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725876 08/22/19 09:29 AM
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"Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced."

That's because they don't know how to develop. Tiny countries manage to create more ballers than our entire system. Red Bulls churn through players. You'd think they'd get better at scouting or realize what a waste of their time it is to bring players in spend a year or two training them then releasing them. But then again there's no real pressure on them to create players. They can't sell them.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725880 08/22/19 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"US Soccer has a $140M cash stockpile they are sitting on right now. They'd rather hoard it and do one stop shopping at middling DA clubs for NT call ups. Talent identification and development is a joke here."

If US Soccer did its job... and created a system of leagues and competitions from youth to pro, based on merit... it would transform everything.


They've made it clear what their priorities are, and it isn't talent development. Look at the GDA mess they've created. All the warning signs were there that the league was too big, ECNL too strong a competitor etc but they ploughed ahead anyway. Now multiple top clubs have left and they've had to back fill with much weaker ones. Then, they split the U17s into U16 and U17, and shocking! Clubs are having trouble filling their rosters? Anyway, it's clear they've no clue what they're doing, just throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725881 08/22/19 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced."

That's because they don't know how to develop. Tiny countries manage to create more ballers than our entire system. Red Bulls churn through players. You'd think they'd get better at scouting or realize what a waste of their time it is to bring players in spend a year or two training them then releasing them. But then again there's no real pressure on them to create players. They can't sell them.


Can't sell them (they kind of can) but also can't charge. It's probably cheaper to cut bait quickly with players that have no shot and try new ones who might. Reality is soccer is a very small funnel no matter where players come from.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725886 08/22/19 02:12 PM
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"Can't sell them (they kind of can) but also can't charge. It's probably cheaper to cut bait quickly with players that have no shot and try new ones who might. Reality is soccer is a very small funnel no matter where players come from."

Need less gatekeepers and more pro clubs. So much potential stifled.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725892 08/22/19 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"Can't sell them (they kind of can) but also can't charge. It's probably cheaper to cut bait quickly with players that have no shot and try new ones who might. Reality is soccer is a very small funnel no matter where players come from."

Need less gatekeepers and more pro clubs. So much potential stifled.


Thats' why the long run there will probably be an alliance with MLS and USL clubs for youth development. USL is the B league that funnels the better talent in the A league, MLS. MLS would remain free, maybe even more add residency options. USL charges enough to break even with a promise of some kind of payday for players that reach certain benchmarks on MLS teams.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725899 08/23/19 07:00 AM
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whats going on with super player Paul son at BWG?

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725904 08/23/19 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
whats going on with super player Paul son at BWG?

He was sent to Barca on loan.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725912 08/23/19 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.


All of the players rostered at NYCFC and NYRB are "good" - they would not be there at all if they weren't. But I do agree that there are 4 or 5 players per age group that are ahead of the rest, and the clubs invest the much more time and resources in developing these few. The rest of the merely "good" players are there to fill out rosters and give the 4 or 5 special ones someone to practice against. As you said, they are easily replaceable.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725917 08/23/19 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.


All of the players rostered at NYCFC and NYRB are "good" - they would not be there at all if they weren't. But I do agree that there are 4 or 5 players per age group that are ahead of the rest, and the clubs invest the much more time and resources in developing these few. The rest of the merely "good" players are there to fill out rosters and give the 4 or 5 special ones someone to practice against. As you said, they are easily replaceable.


Every player at NYCFC and Red Bulls has something special.Whether it's something that is currently helping them dominate right now (like athleticism) or something that will help them dominate in the future (like field awareness and passing vision).

But they are all special in their own way and are all being developed in the same way. Some players have to be challenged more if the are exceptional and they play up a year. Some are currently advanced and are seemingly ahead of the rest.

But there is no telling when a player will blossom or plateau. So all players that have something special about them will be watched year to year.

But they all without a doubt have something special about them. There are no "Good" players at NYCFC or Red Bulls that will advance year to year. If the player was chosen its because they stood out among regular teams and then once they got a chance to see them against MLS Academy level players they were made to look regular themselves and then would get dropped.

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725922 08/23/19 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.


All of the players rostered at NYCFC and NYRB are "good" - they would not be there at all if they weren't. But I do agree that there are 4 or 5 players per age group that are ahead of the rest, and the clubs invest the much more time and resources in developing these few. The rest of the merely "good" players are there to fill out rosters and give the 4 or 5 special ones someone to practice against. As you said, they are easily replaceable.


Every player at NYCFC and Red Bulls has something special.Whether it's something that is currently helping them dominate right now (like athleticism) or something that will help them dominate in the future (like field awareness and passing vision).

But they are all special in their own way and are all being developed in the same way. Some players have to be challenged more if the are exceptional and they play up a year. Some are currently advanced and are seemingly ahead of the rest.

But there is no telling when a player will blossom or plateau. So all players that have something special about them will be watched year to year.

But they all without a doubt have something special about them. There are no "Good" players at NYCFC or Red Bulls that will advance year to year. If the player was chosen its because they stood out among regular teams and then once they got a chance to see them against MLS Academy level players they were made to look regular themselves and then would get dropped.

pessimism? Jealousy?

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #725923 08/23/19 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

Kids from all over, academy and non-academy clubs get picked up by NYCFC and Red Bulls. Almost all eventually get cut. I will say it again, there are very few good players in each age group. There are maybe 4 or 5 the rest are easily replaced.


All of the players rostered at NYCFC and NYRB are "good" - they would not be there at all if they weren't. But I do agree that there are 4 or 5 players per age group that are ahead of the rest, and the clubs invest the much more time and resources in developing these few. The rest of the merely "good" players are there to fill out rosters and give the 4 or 5 special ones someone to practice against. As you said, they are easily replaceable.

the problem ? is only two MLS academies and a few DA academies . there are for sure better players that those kids at both MLS teams . look NYCFC 04 last season what a F... MESS .

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Larry Miller] #725927 08/23/19 03:36 PM
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Every player at NYCFC and Red Bulls has something special.Whether it's something that is currently helping them dominate right now (like athleticism) or something that will help them dominate in the future (like field awareness and passing vision).

But they are all special in their own way and are all being developed in the same way. Some players have to be challenged more if the are exceptional and they play up a year. Some are currently advanced and are seemingly ahead of the rest.

But there is no telling when a player will blossom or plateau. So all players that have something special about them will be watched year to year.

But they all without a doubt have something special about them. There are no "Good" players at NYCFC or Red Bulls that will advance year to year. If the player was chosen its because they stood out among regular teams and then once they got a chance to see them against MLS Academy level players they were made to look regular themselves and then would get dropped. [/quote]
pessimism? Jealousy? [/quote]

What was pessimistic or jealous about my post? What a strange take on what I wrote

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Re: USSF BDA Fall 2019/Spring 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #726006 08/26/19 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"yes, the *U14* MO team beat three MLS teams. I conceded that below U15 it can be a mix. How many of those MO 2005's were pulled to NYCFC or NYRB?"

How many u14s did NYFC and NYRB let go?
How many u15s?

MO 2005 last season was the best team beating three MLS teams and winning practically all games and friendlies . so putting two kids on both MLS team is a big achievement

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