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When is too much?
#716167 12/07/18 10:19 AM
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Scenario:

My children play at the Academy level and love soccer. I have noticed with my oldest (U12) there is a fear in some of the "parents" that their child is going to miss out and they sign their kids up for everything. There is a good portion of the team that their parents have the kids going 6-7 days a week. Sometimes they are going with training for 3-4 hours a day (multiple sessions). This does not include their driving time. To me at 11-12 or almost any age I just can't see how this is in the child's best interest. When do they have the chance to be a kid or do their school work or connect with the family? How about play other sports or take up school activities? I know firsthand that some of these kids are doing this against their wishes and being pushed tremendously by their parents who to me are completely out of line with this IMHO.

I do believe kids need to step away during the off season and scale things down. However these academies have you believe that your 11 year old should go 11 months plus a year. Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments.

Sports is a business (soccer on Long Island big time business) and its up to us as parents to say this is too much. Is my child going to be a better all around mentally and physically with 13 hour days? Do you think some of these organizations that create this atmosphere that more is better worry about the ramifications on your child? Maybe I got it wrong and more is better and works for some families. I am just trying to navigate this as we go and I would like to hear from some of you all to see how you manage the push for more?


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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716168 12/07/18 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by letthemplay23
Scenario:

My children play at the Academy level and love soccer. I have noticed with my oldest (U12) there is a fear in some of the "parents" that their child is going to miss out and they sign their kids up for everything. There is a good portion of the team that their parents have the kids going 6-7 days a week. Sometimes they are going with training for 3-4 hours a day (multiple sessions). This does not include their driving time. To me at 11-12 or almost any age I just can't see how this is in the child's best interest. When do they have the chance to be a kid or do their school work or connect with the family? How about play other sports or take up school activities? I know firsthand that some of these kids are doing this against their wishes and being pushed tremendously by their parents who to me are completely out of line with this IMHO.

I do believe kids need to step away during the off season and scale things down. However these academies have you believe that your 11 year old should go 11 months plus a year. Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments.

Sports is a business (soccer on Long Island big time business) and its up to us as parents to say this is too much. Is my child going to be a better all around mentally and physically with 13 hour days? Do you think some of these organizations that create this atmosphere that more is better worry about the ramifications on your child? Maybe I got it wrong and more is better and works for some families. I am just trying to navigate this as we go and I would like to hear from some of you all to see how you manage the push for more?



Called FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and these trainers and clubs use that to their their advantage all the time. Just remember that they are in business to make money first - before everything else. Most will tell you that your child needs additional training and touches which translates into them needing more $$$ from you. But to be fair, both sides are to blame. Parents have these lofty dreams of their child being an amazing athlete someday playing in college, and are willing to pay top dollar to get that. Clubs/Trainers see this and step right up to take their money.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716169 12/07/18 11:22 AM
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The business side of soccer creates an atmosphere where you worry that if you do not do everything you will be left behind. Seen it at my child's club where the staff will constantly mention the extra camps, training sessions, specialized BS etc. and then talk about how this is where the best, most motivated players will continue to improve. The implied message is that if you do not do their extra sessions it shows you aren't motivated. Same time you have the 2nd team parents who are all over this stuff because they want their kids to take a 1st team spot. The trainers, clubs and leagues exploit this to get everyone worried and ultimately most parents will sign up for at least one of the extra programs.

The training arms race just gets more intense and in the end the adults who want to get paid will and the kids will burn out and quit and really none of them care. If coaches were all rich they could make some decisions with the betterment of the kids in mind but really they do not make enough money to distance themselves from the immediate SELL SELL SELL mentality they're required to have since most coaches are stitching together an income across multiple youth soccer related endeavors.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716170 12/07/18 11:23 AM
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Well said and I agree with you. My wife and I sometimes feel like we are the odd family out. At times I feel bad saying no to my girls but I rather them be much more diverse. In the end we listen to our gut and try to balance all this. Thank you for your input.


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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716172 12/07/18 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by letthemplay23
Scenario:

My children play at the Academy level and love soccer. I have noticed with my oldest (U12) there is a fear in some of the "parents" that their child is going to miss out and they sign their kids up for everything. There is a good portion of the team that their parents have the kids going 6-7 days a week. Sometimes they are going with training for 3-4 hours a day (multiple sessions). This does not include their driving time. To me at 11-12 or almost any age I just can't see how this is in the child's best interest. When do they have the chance to be a kid or do their school work or connect with the family? How about play other sports or take up school activities? I know firsthand that some of these kids are doing this against their wishes and being pushed tremendously by their parents who to me are completely out of line with this IMHO.

I do believe kids need to step away during the off season and scale things down. However these academies have you believe that your 11 year old should go 11 months plus a year. Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments.

Sports is a business (soccer on Long Island big time business) and its up to us as parents to say this is too much. Is my child going to be a better all around mentally and physically with 13 hour days? Do you think some of these organizations that create this atmosphere that more is better worry about the ramifications on your child? Maybe I got it wrong and more is better and works for some families. I am just trying to navigate this as we go and I would like to hear from some of you all to see how you manage the push for more?



Called FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and these trainers and clubs use that to their their advantage all the time. Just remember that they are in business to make money first - before everything else. Most will tell you that your child needs additional training and touches which translates into them needing more $$$ from you. But to be fair, both sides are to blame. Parents have these lofty dreams of their child being an amazing athlete someday playing in college, and are willing to pay top dollar to get that. Clubs/Trainers see this and step right up to take their money.



100% true, but many trainers are now more salesman. Look at some of the crazies, even snap chatting and texting kids on social media accounts to join their teams. No-one calls out these scumbags, parents get all tingly when someone 'wants' their kid and they fall into the trap. Don't need to put on a great product, just be better at rounding up kids than the next guy or girl, that is what LI Soccer has become and will continue until parents wise up and do some research.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716173 12/07/18 11:30 AM
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Both very good posts/thoughts. I also have a couple of kids that play soccer. As a former professional player, i know where my kids are at vs. other kids the same age. Parents really need to start taking a step back. Let the kids be kids and enjoy their youth. Trust me your son/daughter will not be playing overseas and if lucky they may play in the MLS making 60k-100k at most. Is it worth your kids rushing their homework/studies in order to get to all these trainings ? The sports these days are very draining physically and mentally on the kids. One injury in lets say 11th or 12th grade can ruin your kids chances to play d1 anyway. Plus the wear on the body is killer as i have had 3 knee surgeries and i'm only 38 years old.. Just my 2 cents/thoughts of course.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716174 12/07/18 11:37 AM
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To clarify this statement was referring to their schedule for this winter: "Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments."


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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716175 12/07/18 11:46 AM
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Agree with above. But also parents don't see the long term picture, especially if their sport enthusiast is their oldest or first going through it. Tons of kids burn out in middle and high school. Or, they don't develop at the same rate as their peers and get passed by. If they've been focusing full time on one sport while ignoring other sports or activities they may be shut out of other things. Parents of boys also dream of D1 opportunities until they get bit*h slapped with reality when recruiting time comes around. Finally, it may seem like younger players can take the physical demands of playing all the time. But it starts to catch up with them at 14+ as their bodies change and the game gets more physical. Over use injuries are becoming a huge problem with young athletes as they're are expected to train harder at younger ages and focus on only one sport. One serious injury can take a HS player out permanently either physically, mentally or both. If you've been a soccer player for most of your life, then what?

Balance in life is critical. The vast majority of players won't go pro or be on the NT where 100% focus is more needed. At some point the soccer ends, then what? So are academics. Many players decide they don't want to play in college or realize they're not college player material. If you were hoping soccer would open doors but now it won't then you're in trouble if you've ignored school. I've seen it happen plenty, especially with boys. Even if they want to play good grades will open more doors.

My two cents

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716177 12/07/18 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by letthemplay23
To clarify this statement was referring to their schedule for this winter: "Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments."


Yes this seems like a lot as a "base schedule" for the winter. The fact that a club may ask for extra beyond this would be nuts to me in the off season. I think 2x per week + maybe 1 extra session or a game here and there would be plenty, and still more than probably is right. Playing 5-6 days per week during winter seems way more than is correct.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716179 12/07/18 01:17 PM
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I think it's always a balance, especially if your kid is already at the top of the pyramid in DA. They've shown they can play, but we all know that getting more touches will improve their skills. I think the emphasis needs to be on quality - training with kids equal or better, or playing up an age group in a tournament. As a parent, I think trying to make sure you know what the options are - separate the wheat from the chaff - fairly discuss with your kid and understand when to push and when to back off.

I think multiple sessions/day, 3-4 hours/day, 6-7 days/week at U12 is frankly insane. That's full-time job/pro-level training in any sport.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716185 12/07/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by letthemplay23
To clarify this statement was referring to their schedule for this winter: "Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments."


Yes this seems like a lot as a "base schedule" for the winter. The fact that a club may ask for extra beyond this would be nuts to me in the off season. I think 2x per week + maybe 1 extra session or a game here and there would be plenty, and still more than probably is right. Playing 5-6 days per week during winter seems way more than is correct.


their bodies need a break, so do their minds. Use the down time in winter to do other things

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716189 12/07/18 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by letthemplay23
Scenario:

My children play at the Academy level and love soccer. I have noticed with my oldest (U12) there is a fear in some of the "parents" that their child is going to miss out and they sign their kids up for everything. There is a good portion of the team that their parents have the kids going 6-7 days a week. Sometimes they are going with training for 3-4 hours a day (multiple sessions). This does not include their driving time. To me at 11-12 or almost any age I just can't see how this is in the child's best interest. When do they have the chance to be a kid or do their school work or connect with the family? How about play other sports or take up school activities? I know firsthand that some of these kids are doing this against their wishes and being pushed tremendously by their parents who to me are completely out of line with this IMHO.

I do believe kids need to step away during the off season and scale things down. However these academies have you believe that your 11 year old should go 11 months plus a year. Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments.

Sports is a business (soccer on Long Island big time business) and its up to us as parents to say this is too much. Is my child going to be a better all around mentally and physically with 13 hour days? Do you think some of these organizations that create this atmosphere that more is better worry about the ramifications on your child? Maybe I got it wrong and more is better and works for some families. I am just trying to navigate this as we go and I would like to hear from some of you all to see how you manage the push for more?






It’s all a balance. In your situation in my opinion your child is doing too much. Your child is 11. Don’t get caught up with doing everything the crazies do. My kids are older and have been through it. My advice ....focus on how much time your child works on his or her game by themselves Not by how many times u take then to practice or tell them to practice on their own. Also if your child has the talent do not do DA etc until they are 15.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716190 12/07/18 05:25 PM
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Young players are much better off training themselves in the backyard or playing pickup games rather than doing more organized soccer. They're getting. drilled to death and getting nowhere. Get outside, be creative and have fun. Players who want to improve will happily do it. If your kid resists he/she probably wont last. They have to want to improve but they don't have to be driven to an expensive training session to improve.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716191 12/07/18 05:34 PM
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I think if you're asking, you know the answer.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716241 12/10/18 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Young players are much better off training themselves in the backyard or playing pickup games rather than doing more organized soccer. They're getting. drilled to death and getting nowhere. Get outside, be creative and have fun. Players who want to improve will happily do it. If your kid resists he/she probably wont last. They have to want to improve but they don't have to be driven to an expensive training session to improve.



Talking of expensive organized soccer, how much the kids should practice and where, it's interesting to see that the two (expensive) ECNL boys teams on LI didn't do so well this weekend. Neither EM nor Alby Fury managed a win all weekend in any of the four older teen brackets and the combined goal total between U15 - 18, in sixteen home games here on Long Island, was 7 goals for and 68 against. It would be staggering were it not thoroughly expected. I'd say that's a pattern. Not one win. A couple of ties here and there but mostly sound beatings. I feel sorry for these teams that drive six hours to come here and pay NY hotel prices to have to waste their time on this.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716267 12/10/18 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Young players are much better off training themselves in the backyard or playing pickup games rather than doing more organized soccer. They're getting. drilled to death and getting nowhere. Get outside, be creative and have fun. Players who want to improve will happily do it. If your kid resists he/she probably wont last. They have to want to improve but they don't have to be driven to an expensive training session to improve.



Talking of expensive organized soccer, how much the kids should practice and where, it's interesting to see that the two (expensive) ECNL boys teams on LI didn't do so well this weekend. Neither EM nor Alby Fury managed a win all weekend in any of the four older teen brackets and the combined goal total between U15 - 18, in sixteen home games here on Long Island, was 7 goals for and 68 against. It would be staggering were it not thoroughly expected. I'd say that's a pattern. Not one win. A couple of ties here and there but mostly sound beatings. I feel sorry for these teams that drive six hours to come here and pay NY hotel prices to have to waste their time on this.


Nice job staying on topic. Not. If you feel the need to bash ECNL start another thread.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716271 12/10/18 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Young players are much better off training themselves in the backyard or playing pickup games rather than doing more organized soccer. They're getting. drilled to death and getting nowhere. Get outside, be creative and have fun. Players who want to improve will happily do it. If your kid resists he/she probably wont last. They have to want to improve but they don't have to be driven to an expensive training session to improve.



Talking of expensive organized soccer, how much the kids should practice and where, it's interesting to see that the two (expensive) ECNL boys teams on LI didn't do so well this weekend. Neither EM nor Alby Fury managed a win all weekend in any of the four older teen brackets and the combined goal total between U15 - 18, in sixteen home games here on Long Island, was 7 goals for and 68 against. It would be staggering were it not thoroughly expected. I'd say that's a pattern. Not one win. A couple of ties here and there but mostly sound beatings. I feel sorry for these teams that drive six hours to come here and pay NY hotel prices to have to waste their time on this.


Nice job staying on topic. Not. If you feel the need to bash ECNL start another thread.



Did you read the whole thread? Or just the last couple of posts? This was 100 percent on topic. Read original post, page one, please . Nothing to do with ECNL, I was bashing Long Island soccer, whether it’s Albertson, BWG, East Meadow, SUSA, LISC Rough Riders, the point of the thread was that rich, sucker parents are falling victims to FOMO, prey to the grifters out there peddling soccer teams, camps, training, you name it. It was just an easy stat to put out. A dilution of talent, a pile of $4000 per year teams with so-so coaches and a squad of players who would rather play fortnite than go out and kick a ball, except dad takes them to practice, otherwise most of these kids wouldn’t play at all. So we churn out rubbish teams that aren’t worth the trouble of playing against. It’s shameful and an insult to the game.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716276 12/11/18 08:49 AM
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Too much training is on an individual basis. Whats good for one may not be good for another. Cross-training; volleyball, basketball, etc is important in their development. However if a parent wants to pay for the extra training then so be it. Their business. Be sure to your child makes the decision on how much training they want or need.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716277 12/11/18 09:01 AM
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Did you read the whole thread? Or just the last couple of posts? This was 100 percent on topic. Read original post, page one, please . Nothing to do with ECNL, I was bashing Long Island soccer, whether it’s Albertson, BWG, East Meadow, SUSA, LISC Rough Riders, the point of the thread was that rich, sucker parents are falling victims to FOMO, prey to the grifters out there peddling soccer teams, camps, training, you name it. It was just an easy stat to put out. A dilution of talent, a pile of $4000 per year teams with so-so coaches and a squad of players who would rather play fortnite than go out and kick a ball, except dad takes them to practice, otherwise most of these kids wouldn’t play at all. So we churn out rubbish teams that aren’t worth the trouble of playing against. It’s shameful and an insult to the game.

YOU ARE right on point and what you added is completely correct. The system is flawed and that is putting it mildly.

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Re: When is too much?
letthemplay23 #716284 12/11/18 10:04 AM
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The newest craze is for Trainers to get a per kid sign up fee or a lump sum to bring players or a complete team to a new organization. This has made some pretty pure trainers (and I use that term loosely) into the sleaziest of used car salesmen looking for a commission check. When your trainer says we are moving to outfit XYZ because they play in a better league, ask them how much they are getting paid to push the move.

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716291 12/11/18 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The newest craze is for Trainers to get a per kid sign up fee or a lump sum to bring players or a complete team to a new organization. This has made some pretty pure trainers (and I use that term loosely) into the sleaziest of used car salesmen looking for a commission check. When your trainer says we are moving to outfit XYZ because they play in a better league, ask them how much they are getting paid to push the move.



Spot on. The $64,000 question is: how much does a team of 16 bring to a new club at $4K pp?

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716296 12/11/18 01:44 PM
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if your child has the talent do not do DA etc until they are 15.
[/quote]

any specific reasons for this ? "" if your child has the talent do not do DA etc until they are 15 ""

please advise

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716299 12/11/18 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=letthemplay23]Scenario:

My children play at the Academy level and love soccer. I have noticed with my oldest (U12) there is a fear in some of the "parents" that their child is going to miss out and they sign their kids up for everything. There is a good portion of the team that their parents have the kids going 6-7 days a week. Sometimes they are going with training for 3-4 hours a day (multiple sessions). This does not include their driving time. To me at 11-12 or almost any age I just can't see how this is in the child's best interest. When do they have the chance to be a kid or do their school work or connect with the family? How about play other sports or take up school activities? I know firsthand that some of these kids are doing this against their wishes and being pushed tremendously by their parents who to me are completely out of line with this IMHO.

I do believe kids need to step away during the off season and scale things down. However these academies have you believe that your 11 year old should go 11 months plus a year. Without doing anything extra my oldest trains 3 days a week has two games on the weekend and scheduled for 4 tournaments. My younger one trains 3 times a weeks and has one game each weekend. No tournaments.

Sports is a business (soccer on Long Island big time business) and its up to us as parents to say this is too much. Is my child going to be a better all around mentally and physically with 13 hour days? Do you think some of these organizations that create this atmosphere that more is better worry about the ramifications on your child? Maybe I got it wrong and more is better and works for some families. I am just trying to navigate this as we go and I would like to hear from some of you all to see how you manage the push for more?



Called FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and these trainers and clubs use that to their their advantage all the time. Just remember that they are in business to make money first - before everything else. Most will tell you that your child needs additional training and touches which translates into them needing more $$$ from you. But to be fair, both sides are to blame. Parents have these lofty dreams of their child being an amazing athlete someday playing in college, and are willing to pay top dollar to get that. Clubs/Trainers see this and step right up to take their money.

[/quote
No one promoted FOMO more than the "Great Filipo" & Co., even before joining Met Oval. Parents just kept paying up to send their stars to Colombia, Caribbean,Sweden, Italy and up & down the East Coast. Where did it get them? Just some nice pictures to share on facebook/instagram. Advice to the newcomers, don't buy into the hype!!!

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716303 12/11/18 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The newest craze is for Trainers to get a per kid sign up fee or a lump sum to bring players or a complete team to a new organization. This has made some pretty pure trainers (and I use that term loosely) into the sleaziest of used car salesmen looking for a commission check. When your trainer says we are moving to outfit XYZ because they play in a better league, ask them how much they are getting paid to push the move.


And then someone explain to me how some big name trainers work with up to 4 different clubs without a serious conflict? Actually some train the SAME AGE for goodness sakes

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Re: When is too much?
Anonymous #716310 12/11/18 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
if your child has the talent do not do DA etc until they are 15.


any specific reasons for this ? "" if your child has the talent do not do DA etc until they are 15 ""

please advise [/quote]


To many jump to DA at 12. Just keepin a seat warm for the better players
People who know DA know what I mean

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