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Fall '23 Scores & Standings
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NY State Open Cup
ENY Challenge Cup
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Joined: Jan 2013
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OP
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There was a Direct free kick taken by Player 1 on Team A.
As ball is served into the box Player 2 on Team A jumps straight up to Head ball into goal with his head.
GK on Team B Player 3 comes running out from his goal line and jumps up to punch ball but misses ball and punches player 2 on Team A instead by accident.
Player 2 on Team A is hurt on play and is removed from game due to head injury and does not reenter game. (he was okay no concussion but had a headache but with 15 min left in game not worth it)
Is this a foul on GK or just an unfortunate soccer play?
Thank you.
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First I will say the age and skill of the players is very important when making a decision like this.
Just based on your analysis this is a foul whether intentional or not.
Without seeing exactly what happened I can't say whether it is SFP (serious foul play) or not.
Its not VC (violent conduct) since he was making an attempt to play the ball.
If he was reckless I would caution the keeper and award a PK.
If keeper made contact with the ball at the same time player came in for the header, most likely I would stop play. Assist injured player. Drop ball where collision occurred.
These things are hard to say without seeing it.
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It is irrelevant whether there is intent or not. The referee cannot read the mind of the offender and determine intent, the referee can just call what he sees and if he sees a foul then it is a foul, period! If it was a foul in the penalty area then it is a penalty kick!
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OP
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Thank you both it was a u16 NPL game.
To clarify for 414141 GK never touched the ball.
Agree with LIRef I cannot read GK mind From my viewpoint the gk did appear to go after the ball but did punch opposing team (my) player during that process.
This one play had no bearing on final score and ref was solid. I honestly did not know the proper call so I asked ref after the game to explain the no call. The Ref was polite about it he did not think it was intentional he thought gk was making a play for the ball.....
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I agree with Anon41’s call. We have to also keep in mind that it was a head injury so while 41 said he would caution there could be consideration of excessive force by the keeper and a red and a PK. It’s a tough call but perhaps in the opinion of the referee it did not rise to that level.
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Based on the description, it was a foul and the very least a PK, and I agree as mentioned whether intentional or not its irrelevant. As described, the attacker went straight up into the air meaning the attacker stayed within his/her own space. The keeper as described came running in from the goal line and jumps up in an attempt to punch the ball away, meaning the keeper invaded into the attackers space, thus could not be considered a 50/50 ball, and the only result should be a PK. The only decision the Ref had would have been whether the play was reckless, serious foul play or violent conduct.
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You make good point JP but if I was the referee and called it a foul then it could be reckless (yellow card) or serious foul play (red card) or using excessive force (red card). As you say it would be a PK. Violent conduct is misconduct and the penalty is a red card, but this happened while the ball was in play, on the field so it is a FOUL not misconduct.
After reading the OP my biggest concern for the fouled player is the conclusion that he did NOT have a concussion which cannot be determined by a layperson and requires an MRI or a scan.
The fact that the player had a headache could be a symptom of a concussion! Just like all Coaches, Referees like me have to get concussion training. If it was my son or if I was his Coach I would have him make an appointment with a Neurologist and get a full evaluation because that is truly the only person qualified to determine whether the player suffered a concussion.
Any time a head injury is suspected the player needs to be checked out by a medical professional!
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OP
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You make good point JP but if I was the referee and called it a foul then it could be reckless (yellow card) or serious foul play (red card) or using excessive force (red card). As you say it would be a PK. Violent conduct is misconduct and the penalty is a red card, but this happened while the ball was in play, on the field so it is a FOUL not misconduct.
After reading the OP my biggest concern for the fouled player is the conclusion that he did NOT have a concussion which cannot be determined by a layperson and requires an MRI or a scan.
The fact that the player had a headache could be a symptom of a concussion! Just like all Coaches, Referees like me have to get concussion training. If it was my son or if I was his Coach I would have him make an appointment with a Neurologist and get a full evaluation because that is truly the only person qualified to determine whether the player suffered a concussion.
Any time a head injury is suspected the player needs to be checked out by a medical professional! The Player was not put back in the game and concussion protocol was followed, parents had him checked by their own physician.
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I believe Cross It For Fun failed to mention what happened to the ball immediately following the described incident.
That is, unless I'm going blind, which is possible.
If the ball completely crossed over the goal line its a goal, no PK, and a caution or a red card.
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Well it always helps to have ALL THE INFORMATION when someone asks what the call should have been and if we had the most obvious information that a goal was scored that would have eliminated any talk of a PK. So as Dave says it’s a yellow or a red card and nothing else!
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OP
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Ball went out of bounds, Team A shot deflected out of bounds off Team B.
Thrown in for Team A.
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Then I can only surmise that the two of you were describing two different games?
Thanks for clearing that up Cross it 4 Fun!
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OP
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Summary of individual answes to the questions asked put in chronological order:
There was a Direct free kick taken by Player 1 on Team A.
As ball is served into the box Player 2 on Team A jumps straight up to Head ball into goal with his head.
GK on Team B Player 3 comes running out from his goal line and jumps up to punch ball but misses ball and punches player 2 on Team A instead by accident.
Player 2 on Team A is hurt on play and is removed from game due to head injury and does not reenter game. (he was okay no concussion but had a headache but with 15 min left in game not worth it - The Player was not put back in the game and concussion protocol was followed, parents had him checked by their own physician)
Ball went out of bounds, Team A shot deflected out of bounds off Team B.
Thrown in for Team A.
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Based on the added details, I still believe the correct call was not made on this play, and the fact the ref stated it was not intentional leads me to believe there was lack of experience. However, we have all seen the most experienced referees even in the FIFA World Cup make even greater errors than described here. Anyway, lets say in this case the ball did find its way into the net after the collision. Now what comes into play is, when did the ref blow the whistle? Was it prior to the ball crossing the goal line or after? If it was prior, then play was stopped and the goal would not count, thus resulting in a PK and a booking on the GK. If after the ball crossed the goal line, then goal counts with a booking on the GK. As I stated earlier based solely on what was described IMHO, the GK invaded the attackers
space, by running into it and punching him in the head instead of the ball. The only decision in my opinion which should have been made was the color of the card to show, and to bring this into further light, if there was no other defender between the attacker and the GK, then DOGSO would apply.
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Based on the added details, I still believe the correct call was not made on this play, and the fact the ref stated it was not intentional leads me to believe there was lack of experience. However, we have all seen the most experienced referees even in the FIFA World Cup make even greater errors than described here. Anyway, lets say in this case the ball did find its way into the net after the collision. Now what comes into play is, when did the ref blow the whistle? Was it prior to the ball crossing the goal line or after? If it was prior, then play was stopped and the goal would not count, thus resulting in a PK and a booking on the GK. If after the ball crossed the goal line, then goal counts with a booking on the GK. As I stated earlier based solely on what was described IMHO, the GK invaded the attackers
space, by running into it and punching him in the head instead of the ball. The only decision in my opinion which should have been made was the color of the card to show, and to bring this into further light, if there was no other defender between the attacker and the GK, then DOGSO would apply. Correct no one in between, the opposing team player marking him was behind attacking player. Thank you. As I Stated orginally I was unsure of the call and the ref was solid all day. So not picking on ref at all....just wanted to know...thanks again
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LM w/gf Bree Walker, Pat St. John, Dead's Bob Weir, & Mickey Hart, Lee Oskar of War, & Zacherle
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