Fall '20 Scores & Standings:| CJSL | G-ECNL | G-ECRL | B-ECNL | B-ECRL | EDP | GA | LIJSL | MLS NXT | NCSANJ | WYSL |


Forum Search
Fall 2020
Scores & Standings
Girls Academy League
GA Schedule & Standings
MLS Next Scores & Standings
Scores & Standings
National League Playoffs
2020-21 National Playoffs
EDP 2020/2021
Scores & Standings
WYSL Scores & Standings
Fall '20 Scores & Standings
LIJSL Scores & Standings
Scores & Standings
ENY State Cups 2020-2021
Challenge Cup
NY State Cup
Maxpreps High School
New York
New Jersey
Connecticut
Maryland
Latest Posts
G2007:U14 Fall 2020/Spring 2021
by Anonymous - 10/28/20 02:39 PM
Where are all the Referees?
by Anonymous - 10/28/20 02:20 PM
B2009:U12 Fall 2020/Spring 2021
by Anonymous - 10/28/20 01:30 PM
BOTN en Espańol
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
#709837 07/13/18 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
Back of THE NET
OP Offline
Back of THE NET
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
VAR Receiving Rave Reviews

Admittedly, I was a skeptic of VAR, that it would slow down the game, make refs look bad, etc. but, having watched the system in action, I'm now a proponent.

One ref, two ARs, one huge field and 22 players scattered about is a lot of ground to cover, not to mention players taking dives, screaming in pain and rolling on the ground working without actors equity cards.

The results of the video and slo-mo camera and seeing the game from different angles works for me.

Too bad its such an expensive system and most of soccer will continue to be played the old fashioned way.

www.insideworldfootball.com/2018/07...praises-says-var-making-football-honest/

Like Reply Quote
Junior Soccer Advertisements

Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Dave Birnbaum #709860 07/13/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
L
Back of THE NET
Offline
Back of THE NET
L
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
VAR works well and is so popular it has been reported that youth players are making the VAR signal asking for a replay from the Ref.

And if you “asked the ref” how would you handle that, it would be with a smile and a yellow card for dissent, or unsporting behavior, take your pick.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
LIRef77 #709905 07/15/18 09:32 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by LIRef77
VAR works well and is so popular it has been reported that youth players are making the VAR signal asking for a replay from the Ref.

And if you “asked the ref” how would you handle that, it would be with a smile and a yellow card for dissent, or unsporting behavior, take your pick.



Seems a little stiff. How can that be dissent? I can’t imagine a younger ref giving a card right off the bat, how about a warning first? Were you at the May monthly meeting? The whole presentation was that all the ref officially has to do is keep time and record the score. Anything else is subjective and the ref’s real job is to let the game flow, safely and keep it a good experience for all. The old guys were up in arms, they love to blow the whistle and give cards. I found it all rather refreshing.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Anonymous #709925 07/15/18 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
Back of THE NET
OP Offline
Back of THE NET
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
putting aside the discussions/directives etc and opinions and outcome from referee meetings, I'd ask

what's the distinction, if any, between a player making the sign of "go to the VAR tv box" vs a player throwing up his arm to signal an opponent was in the offside position, or indicating a handball, both of which you often see players doing in the course of a game which to my knowledge don't usually result in cards

wouldn't they be considered signs of dissent as to a non-call? yet, neither ordinarily ends up with a yellow card

in a way, perhaps its a positive to see youth players making the VAR hand signal which at least demonstrates they seem to be up to date watching the big games on TV or live at a stadium

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Dave Birnbaum #709929 07/15/18 03:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
L
Back of THE NET
Offline
Back of THE NET
L
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
Well it’s always about tone, tenor and attitude. There is a lot more tolerance allowed from professionals than from children playing the game.

There are other things that youth players do that shows that they are up to date watching the big games like diving or simulation which is also not tolerated. If a player did it to me with a smile or as a lighthearted joke in the context of a game where we have been having laughs it’s one thing but if a player does it with anger, disdain and disrespect that is altogether a different situation that needs to be dealt with immediately.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
LIRef77 #709962 07/16/18 12:35 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Well it’s always about tone, tenor and attitude. There is a lot more tolerance allowed from professionals than from children playing the game.

There are other things that youth players do that shows that they are up to date watching the big games like diving or simulation which is also not tolerated. If a player did it to me with a smile or as a lighthearted joke in the context of a game where we have been having laughs it’s one thing but if a player does it with anger, disdain and disrespect that is altogether a different situation that needs to be dealt with immediately.



It's also fair to say there's also a lot more tolerance allowed from younger refs, who are active players, than some of the older ones, who won't hear a word without a yellow flourish. Younger refs tell me they want to hear what the players have to say, as long as it is respectful and constructive - no-one can get every call right and they are OK with that. There is also more of a 'let's make this game flow' attitude from refs under 40 and especially under 20, than the 'us against them' mentality I see from many of the older ones. Was at a tournament recently where the whole tenor of the refs was to try and catch anything they could. Shame, the games were awful. Hopefully there will be a flow of keen young, soccer-playing CRs coming up in the next few years because I like what I am seeing so far. The kids prefer to play with a young ref, they can relate to. It feels like they are in it together and that has to be good for the game.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Dave Birnbaum #709965 07/16/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
L
Back of THE NET
Offline
Back of THE NET
L
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
You are making a general statement with no evidence or statistical model and it is nothing but a guess based on the TINY statistical model you are seeing. Good luck getting more young referees, every referee organization is focused on training new referees who also happen to be players but we can’t keep them because the atmosphere is getting worse and more challenging for young referees. It’s a two way street, can some referees be friendlier, yes. Can the adults (Coaches and parents) around the touchline be less hostile? YES!

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
LIRef77 #709968 07/16/18 01:49 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by LIRef77
You are making a general statement with no evidence or statistical model and it is nothing but a guess based on the TINY statistical model you are seeing. Good luck getting more young referees, every referee organization is focused on training new referees who also happen to be players but we can’t keep them because the atmosphere is getting worse and more challenging for young referees. It’s a two way street, can some referees be friendlier, yes. Can the adults (Coaches and parents) around the touchline be less hostile? YES!



I am not sure why you always have to resort to hostility when you think you disagree with someone, you seem quick to reach for your own written yellow card. You do not know who I am, how many games I have seen, how many refs I know, young or old, trainers, clubs, coaches or players who have something to say about this with whom I have talked. No evidence? A guess? How do you know that, you are the one with no evidence, assuming I have a 'TINY' statistical model. How could it be a guess? What, I made it up? Been around a while, seen plenty and it was a fair point. If you happen to disagree with it, again, there is no need to be rude. I actually thought we were on the same side. Please try to wait until you know all the facts before you form an opinion.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Dave Birnbaum #709969 07/16/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
L
Back of THE NET
Offline
Back of THE NET
L
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 4
If you think I’m being hostile then you should ref a game because it doesn’t matter how many refs you know until you try it you just don’t know what going on out there. I am using FACTS if that is interpreted by you as hostile, so be it.

So let’s do the statistical math of your TINY sample. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you saw 20 games at that tournament which would probably be twice your sample size. Surfing the Spring or summer season there are at least over 1000 games per weekend or more depending on your area/community.

So let’s just use 20 out of 1000 games. You saw a sample size of 2%, probably smaller and not representative of any one age group for any community high enough to measure for it to be prevalent or rare. That’s a fact.

As far as my use of yellow cards I am judicious with their use, hate to use them but will not hesitate when necessary. Many young referees are hesitant to use them and upset people but they eventually learn how to use them appropriately. You also do not know me so we’re even there.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
LIRef77 #709973 07/16/18 03:40 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by LIRef77
If you think I’m being hostile then you should ref a game because it doesn’t matter how many refs you know until you try it you just don’t know what going on out there. I am using FACTS if that is interpreted by you as hostile, so be it.

So let’s do the statistical math of your TINY sample. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you saw 20 games at that tournament which would probably be twice your sample size. Surfing the Spring or summer season there are at least over 1000 games per weekend or more depending on your area/community.

So let’s just use 20 out of 1000 games. You saw a sample size of 2%, probably smaller and not representative of any one age group for any community high enough to measure for it to be prevalent or rare. That’s a fact.

As far as my use of yellow cards I am judicious with their use, hate to use them but will not hesitate when necessary. Many young referees are hesitant to use them and upset people but they eventually learn how to use them appropriately. You also do not know me so we’re even there.



And off you go again. Just so rude. I have tried to engage you several times with thoughtful discussion on many different threads. A little teaser and out you pop and you almost always get huffy, usually resorting to the 'try reffing a game' response and then you deflect from the point being made, which has often been one you agree with. I did not offer a statistical analysis, merely a thoughtful comment, the point about the tournament was just a minor one, not at all the main point I was making. I am at many games most weekends, boys and girls, I see games at all ages and levels and have done for years. I know several G8s under 20, most of whom are EDP players. I know full well about the shouting, seen it many times. The post was that younger refs seem, in my tiny little sample size of a few hundred games over the years, more likely to let the game flow and interact with the players, where the older ones are more 'us v them', hence my comment earlier about the May meeting being a breath of fresh air. Not sure why you had to leap on the other point. Worst thing is we probably do know each other. Shame, I have to stop coming on here.

Like Reply Quote
Re: VAR Receiving Rave Reviews
Dave Birnbaum #709975 07/16/18 04:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
Back of THE NET
OP Offline
Back of THE NET
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,834
Anyway, as I was saying, VAR is fascinating. Different camera angles, slowing the action down, frame by frame, etc.

The VAR saved a goal by Bradley Wright Phillips on Saturday for the Red Bulls that had originally been disallowed because the ref though that BWP was in an offside position when he went for the ball.

Even is on, but the ref, from his angle couldn't tell that BWP started to pass the last defender just as the ball was sent by his teammate. But the VAR saw it correctly.

Determining offside is an extremely challenging task-- trying to watch simultaneously with the speed of play the last defender, the attacking player, the ball and the player making the pass.

With VAR, if the ref gets it right, its good for the ref. If the ref gets it wrong because of the VAR, the pictures often show just how close the play was and why and how a ref could have seen the play differently. I think its great for referees.

A lot of people were concerned that the VAR system would show refs up. On the contrary, I think all the camera angles, frame by frame, etc. shows how refs have to deal so often with very very close calls.

BUT, there is one negative thing about the VAR. Without it fans and players were able to disagree forever about a call. Now, when VAR is employed, they usually can't.

Like Reply Quote
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Moderated by  Dave Birnbaum 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Click Here!