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US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
#703457 04/05/18 07:51 PM
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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703458 04/05/18 08:14 PM
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Fantastic. As a parent of a late bloomer, it was interesting to watch the mature u12s and 13s dominate only to “hit the wall” in later years. I never understood why clubs go nuts for the young tall kids, especially in a game where skill matters more than size.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703461 04/05/18 09:56 PM
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Because they want to win at all costs. So ignore the smaller skilled player until he/she blossoms and then they cater to that player. It’s what most coaches and clubs do. At least the shortsighted...

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703464 04/06/18 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Because they want to win at all costs. So ignore the smaller skilled player until he/she blossoms and then they cater to that player. It’s what most coaches and clubs do. At least the shortsighted...

Problem with smaller kids is they don't always blossom, they remain small compared to peers. At 15/16 yrs old, she/he still look like 13yrs old. Big player with skill or small player with skill? The choice is obvious.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703466 04/06/18 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Because they want to win at all costs. So ignore the smaller skilled player until he/she blossoms and then they cater to that player. It’s what most coaches and clubs do. At least the shortsighted...

Problem with smaller kids is they don't always blossom, they remain small compared to peers. At 15/16 yrs old, she/he still look like 13yrs old. Big player with skill or small player with skill? The choice is obvious.


That is what the bio banding is supposed to account for though. Looking at bone structure and parental size to predict the ultimate size of the player once growth is done.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703469 04/06/18 12:57 PM
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Quote: "Problem with smaller kids is they don't always blossom, they remain small compared to peers. At 15/16 yrs old, she/he still look like 13yrs old. Big player with skill or small player with skill? The choice is obvious."

Read the US Soccer article then read this article. It gives a better explanation. https://www.scienceforsport.com/bio-banding/

Most coaches and trainers who know or care little about a players physiological make up and potential will not be concerned with Bio-banding. They will still just take the more mature younger players just so they can win games. Furthermore, this is all well and good but we have always had the players, we just have the wrong people running US Soccer and our developmental systems are not good. We need to figure out how to get better people running things so we can achieve better results. A lot more needs to be done to fix US Soccer than this but at least it shows some thinking.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703472 04/06/18 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Quote: "Problem with smaller kids is they don't always blossom, they remain small compared to peers. At 15/16 yrs old, she/he still look like 13yrs old. Big player with skill or small player with skill? The choice is obvious."

Read the US Soccer article then read this article. It gives a better explanation. https://www.scienceforsport.com/bio-banding/

Most coaches and trainers who know or care little about a players physiological make up and potential will not be concerned with Bio-banding. They will still just take the more mature younger players just so they can win games. Furthermore, this is all well and good but we have always had the players, we just have the wrong people running US Soccer and our developmental systems are not good. We need to figure out how to get better people running things so we can achieve better results. A lot more needs to be done to fix US Soccer than this but at least it shows some thinking.



Add to it all the pay-to-play clubs who need wins to keep the talent pipeline flowing. Of course they'll pick the bigger kids. Part of the supposed appeal of DA, especially with combined age teams, is that you get pushed more as a younger player playing with older players. Same applies to size - smaller players won't be pushed as hard playing with younger smaller players but the older bigger ones. Also, parent height isn't always a great predictor of a child's final height.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703487 04/06/18 09:16 PM
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Soooooooo Messi I shouldn't be on the field because everyone is bigger than him. This is the stupidest idiotic most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of or seen. Im sure messi wasn't a giant at the youth level. Size in soccer anyway doesn't matter

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703488 04/06/18 10:15 PM
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I agree so much height strength and speed do not always translate to dribbling, scoring and control skills. I coached a girl's team who had a forward that was always the smallest player on the field and she could juke and fake out any player out of their shorts and was always among the most skilled player on the field. She was an absolute passing mad scoring machine and her tiny size did not matter. Soccer is not basketball and not American football where size is more important.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703490 04/06/18 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soooooooo Messi I shouldn't be on the field because everyone is bigger than him. This is the stupidest idiotic most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of or seen. Im sure messi wasn't a giant at the youth level. Size in soccer anyway doesn't matter


Do you think in a bio-banding system Messi would be kept down? Should we design a youth development system around Messi-caliber players?

Tell me one negative outcome if this is used to move bigger kids up a bit and smaller kids down. One negative thing.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703499 04/07/18 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soooooooo Messi I shouldn't be on the field because everyone is bigger than him. This is the stupidest idiotic most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of or seen. Im sure messi wasn't a giant at the youth level. Size in soccer anyway doesn't matter


Do you think in a bio-banding system Messi would be kept down? Should we design a youth development system around Messi-caliber players?

Tell me one negative outcome if this is used to move bigger kids up a bit and smaller kids down. One negative thing.

Ok genious. Size does not mean the player has any skill whatsoever. It's the best skill and ability to think on the field that matter.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703511 04/07/18 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fantastic. As a parent of a late bloomer, it was interesting to watch the mature u12s and 13s dominate only to “hit the wall” in later years. I never understood why clubs go nuts for the young tall kids, especially in a game where skill matters more than size.




But height does not always equal maturity. It’s the thickness and physically mature muscle mass. Some kids with height mature later as well.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703513 04/07/18 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soooooooo Messi I shouldn't be on the field because everyone is bigger than him. This is the stupidest idiotic most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of or seen. Im sure messi wasn't a giant at the youth level. Size in soccer anyway doesn't matter


Do you think in a bio-banding system Messi would be kept down? Should we design a youth development system around Messi-caliber players?

Tell me one negative outcome if this is used to move bigger kids up a bit and smaller kids down. One negative thing.

Ok genious. Size does not mean the player has any skill whatsoever. It's the best skill and ability to think on the field that matter.


You've not answered my question, but I think you know that and you know what I meant. Obviously only skilled kids would play up. So answer the original question: What is the downside of allowing skilled but physically delayed kids to play down? Not forcing them to -- just allowing clubs to do it if they think it's appropriate.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703519 04/07/18 08:26 PM
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The skilled but physically delayed kid may play down two years due to his physical attributes. (Same size never really means same strength or mentality) But he'll be a goal scoring machine giving him a false sense of self. Also, the kids that he is beating up on are going to think they may not be good at soccer because the player who is two years older, but the same size is kicking the crap out of them because hes mentally more mature Meanwhile the less mature kids lose confidence in themselves yet they are just as skilled but they dont see it.If a coach sees a bigger kid whos stronger and faster and scores a few goals here and there because of his size but doesnt see a smaller skilled player with quickness, smarts and just natural ability to play the game, he shouldnt ever step foot on a soccer field because it means he doesnt know crap about the game.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703524 04/07/18 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The skilled but physically delayed kid may play down two years due to his physical attributes. (Same size never really means same strength or mentality) But he'll be a goal scoring machine giving him a false sense of self. Also, the kids that he is beating up on are going to think they may not be good at soccer because the player who is two years older, but the same size is kicking the crap out of them because hes mentally more mature Meanwhile the less mature kids lose confidence in themselves yet they are just as skilled but they dont see it.If a coach sees a bigger kid whos stronger and faster and scores a few goals here and there because of his size but doesnt see a smaller skilled player with quickness, smarts and just natural ability to play the game, he shouldnt ever step foot on a soccer field because it means he doesnt know crap about the game.


This is all true, if you assume that the coaches and everyone else involved in the process is a moron.

This is all going to be at the discretion of the coaches, players and parents. They're not going to start forcing people into bio bands. It might be helpful to you to actually watch the video before you start posting about it.

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Larry Miller #703534 04/08/18 08:48 AM
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So what clubs are doing this? Will DA have to?

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703539 04/08/18 10:05 AM
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That isnt the point of the bio-banding initiative. It doesnt prevent having clubs place kids in a higher age group or in this case a higher group based on bio-banding: however, instead of purely relying on age as to the lowest group to assign a kid, it would allow a club to place a kid with a younger group of kids based on where he or she is in his or her stage of development. As it stands, the general thought is we are losing kids who could very well turn out much better when fully developed. This is already being done in other countries. As an example, many academies in England, are keeping more kids who would otherwise have been cut who are in an earlier stage of development but otherwise are talented and if they were in the same percentage of their own development would be at that level of the other kids. Hardly an exact science, but looking to improve the process of developing talent and improving the ultimate talent pool

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Re: US Soccer Bio-Banding Initiative - The Video
Anonymous #703569 04/08/18 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
That isnt the point of the bio-banding initiative. It doesnt prevent having clubs place kids in a higher age group or in this case a higher group based on bio-banding: however, instead of purely relying on age as to the lowest group to assign a kid, it would allow a club to place a kid with a younger group of kids based on where he or she is in his or her stage of development. As it stands, the general thought is we are losing kids who could very well turn out much better when fully developed. This is already being done in other countries. As an example, many academies in England, are keeping more kids who would otherwise have been cut who are in an earlier stage of development but otherwise are talented and if they were in the same percentage of their own development would be at that level of the other kids. Hardly an exact science, but looking to improve the process of developing talent and improving the ultimate talent pool





This is a very helpful description. So in this system kids could play up or down based on ability not age. This could conceivably create some very exciting, evenly played matches as opposed to some of the lopsided ones we see now. I wonder how clubs would deal with this.

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