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EDP - New REP Program.
#702462 03/13/18 11:18 AM
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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous414141 #702503 03/13/18 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous414141


I disagree. It's a tremendously LATE start. Why do we need to institute "programs" to instill the normal civility that human beings are supposed to exhibit? Why are we allowing adults to continue to be negative role models for young soccer players?
It starts with the Clubs and their Coaches, they are supposed to lead by example and set the tone for the entire team and their culture. It's up to them to address the miscreants that are a minority that continue to ruin it for the majority.
Quite interesting that a "development" league is finally realizing that it is in fact HUMAN development that needs to be addressed. Why do they care now? Because like many leagues they are realizing that if young referees continue to have a huge attrition rate then no amount of money will get them to do it if the environment is so toxic that it is just not worth doing!
All you have to do to see the atmosphere is to see the total lack of civility being exhibited on some of these boards.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous414141 #702504 03/13/18 09:44 PM
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Why need to be so negative to someone recognizing this and adjusting? I like lots of what u say LiRef77, but sometimes ...take a step off the soapbox and stop taking yourself so seriously, just saying ....

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702508 03/13/18 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why need to be so negative to someone recognizing this and adjusting? I like lots of what u say LiRef77, but sometimes ...take a step off the soapbox and stop taking yourself so seriously, just saying ....


You may think I'm on a soapbox but at least I step on the pitch and do something. All you do is...just saying. What are you DOING (not just saying) for the game?

I am not here to speak of myself or to be positive just because it feels better. The facts are the facts, this is not my soapbox, this is every referee's soapbox because I am ranting for them. But it's also for the players, always for the players because that's who I ref for, mostly.

If you knew me or of my way of doing business you would already know that. I don't take myself so seriously and like to have fun when I ref games and have fun with the players,coaches and spectators. But what I do I do take seriously because I am trying hard to get it right and giving my all for the entire game whether it's a U9, Cup game or U20 Game.

We have a problem with the game my friend and that is what these leagues are trying to fix. Reffing is hard enough but I'm an adult so when I see a young 16 year old referee getting bullied by adults it breaks my heart, but I make sure I address those adults involved if I see it.

So based on the fact that the retiring referees are not being replaced fast enough and the behavior is getting out of hand I ask you all- Coach, parent, spectator what can you do to make it better? Don't accept it from your Coach. Don't accept it from a team parent. You know who I'm talking about. I'm talking about that guy, you know him. He's the one making everyone around the game uncomfortable. You know the feeling. You feel it in your stomach. You think, this is so wrong, why won't he just stop? Just imagine how the 16 year old referee feels. Or maybe think about the 16 year old player whose Dad is the bully? How do you think he feels? I'm there for him too. Silence to a bully is like support. What are we doing to stop it? I'm experienced enough to take care of it. How come I don't hear any adults telling this guy to chill? Then only when I have this adult ejected does a mob then turn against him and scream joy that he is gone! What about that adult's player child how does he feel now? Yes I am thinking about him also. When appropriate I will not hesitate to eject someone but it gives me no pleasure. But the fact that a league has to enforce a behavior rule which is directed at the ADULTS! Yes they are the root of most troubles. KIds are smart they also know it when they see it.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
LIRef77 #702511 03/14/18 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why need to be so negative to someone recognizing this and adjusting? I like lots of what u say LiRef77, but sometimes ...take a step off the soapbox and stop taking yourself so seriously, just saying ....


You may think I'm on a soapbox but at least I step on the pitch and do something. All you do is...just saying. What are you DOING (not just saying) for the game?

I am not here to speak of myself or to be positive just because it feels better. The facts are the facts, this is not my soapbox, this is every referee's soapbox because I am ranting for them. But it's also for the players, always for the players because that's who I ref for, mostly.

If you knew me or of my way of doing business you would already know that. I don't take myself so seriously and like to have fun when I ref games and have fun with the players,coaches and spectators. But what I do I do take seriously because I am trying hard to get it right and giving my all for the entire game whether it's a U9, Cup game or U20 Game.

We have a problem with the game my friend and that is what these leagues are trying to fix. Reffing is hard enough but I'm an adult so when I see a young 16 year old referee getting bullied by adults it breaks my heart, but I make sure I address those adults involved if I see it.

So based on the fact that the retiring referees are not being replaced fast enough and the behavior is getting out of hand I ask you all- Coach, parent, spectator what can you do to make it better? Don't accept it from your Coach. Don't accept it from a team parent. You know who I'm talking about. I'm talking about that guy, you know him. He's the one making everyone around the game uncomfortable. You know the feeling. You feel it in your stomach. You think, this is so wrong, why won't he just stop? Just imagine how the 16 year old referee feels. Or maybe think about the 16 year old player whose Dad is the bully? How do you think he feels? I'm there for him too. Silence to a bully is like support. What are we doing to stop it? I'm experienced enough to take care of it. How come I don't hear any adults telling this guy to chill? Then only when I have this adult ejected does a mob then turn against him and scream joy that he is gone! What about that adult's player child how does he feel now? Yes I am thinking about him also. When appropriate I will not hesitate to eject someone but it gives me no pleasure. But the fact that a league has to enforce a behavior rule which is directed at the ADULTS! Yes they are the root of most troubles. KIds are smart they also know it when they see it.





Hi LI Ref. You may find there's another reason for the attrition rate in young refs. My kid is one of your enthusiastic new G8s and was even working the center (initially supervised by LISRA) at 14. You probably know him personally. He couldn't wait to start picking up CR gigs when he qualified in September but since then has been assigned only one game. One game, October last year. He got nothing for the LI cup or NY cup this month. Nothing all Fall, nothing so far this year. He has to beg for games and pick up scraps. He chased LISRA admin and was told that because he is an active player and has blocks on some of his time, it' s not convenient to schedule him because you want people who are free all day and are easy to assign. So you have a catch 22. An active player who wants to ref, gets left (literally) on the sidelines because it's easier to give the jobs in chunks to the older guys who do it for the money. If you want to keep your young, keen refs before they give up and go elsewhere, you might want to target them and see what you can do to throw them a bone. You'll find they are happy to have a couple of games here and there - unlike some of the people out there reffing, they have plenty to do on a weekend and they'd like to pay for it with a game or two. So it's the bureaucracy of the ref associations that's as much a factor as parental/coach abuse. I can speak only for my own kid but he usually laughs that stuff off - if ever he gets to ref a game.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702516 03/14/18 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why need to be so negative to someone recognizing this and adjusting? I like lots of what u say LiRef77, but sometimes ...take a step off the soapbox and stop taking yourself so seriously, just saying ....


You may think I'm on a soapbox but at least I step on the pitch and do something. All you do is...just saying. What are you DOING (not just saying) for the game?

I am not here to speak of myself or to be positive just because it feels better. The facts are the facts, this is not my soapbox, this is every referee's soapbox because I am ranting for them. But it's also for the players, always for the players because that's who I ref for, mostly.

If you knew me or of my way of doing business you would already know that. I don't take myself so seriously and like to have fun when I ref games and have fun with the players,coaches and spectators. But what I do I do take seriously because I am trying hard to get it right and giving my all for the entire game whether it's a U9, Cup game or U20 Game.

We have a problem with the game my friend and that is what these leagues are trying to fix. Reffing is hard enough but I'm an adult so when I see a young 16 year old referee getting bullied by adults it breaks my heart, but I make sure I address those adults involved if I see it.

So based on the fact that the retiring referees are not being replaced fast enough and the behavior is getting out of hand I ask you all- Coach, parent, spectator what can you do to make it better? Don't accept it from your Coach. Don't accept it from a team parent. You know who I'm talking about. I'm talking about that guy, you know him. He's the one making everyone around the game uncomfortable. You know the feeling. You feel it in your stomach. You think, this is so wrong, why won't he just stop? Just imagine how the 16 year old referee feels. Or maybe think about the 16 year old player whose Dad is the bully? How do you think he feels? I'm there for him too. Silence to a bully is like support. What are we doing to stop it? I'm experienced enough to take care of it. How come I don't hear any adults telling this guy to chill? Then only when I have this adult ejected does a mob then turn against him and scream joy that he is gone! What about that adult's player child how does he feel now? Yes I am thinking about him also. When appropriate I will not hesitate to eject someone but it gives me no pleasure. But the fact that a league has to enforce a behavior rule which is directed at the ADULTS! Yes they are the root of most troubles. KIds are smart they also know it when they see it.





Hi LI Ref. You may find there's another reason for the attrition rate in young refs. My kid is one of your enthusiastic new G8s and was even working the center (initially supervised by LISRA) at 14. You probably know him personally. He couldn't wait to start picking up CR gigs when he qualified in September but since then has been assigned only one game. One game, October last year. He got nothing for the LI cup or NY cup this month. Nothing all Fall, nothing so far this year. He has to beg for games and pick up scraps. He chased LISRA admin and was told that because he is an active player and has blocks on some of his time, it' s not convenient to schedule him because you want people who are free all day and are easy to assign. So you have a catch 22. An active player who wants to ref, gets left (literally) on the sidelines because it's easier to give the jobs in chunks to the older guys who do it for the money. If you want to keep your young, keen refs before they give up and go elsewhere, you might want to target them and see what you can do to throw them a bone. You'll find they are happy to have a couple of games here and there - unlike some of the people out there reffing, they have plenty to do on a weekend and they'd like to pay for it with a game or two. So it's the bureaucracy of the ref associations that's as much a factor as parental/coach abuse. I can speak only for my own kid but he usually laughs that stuff off - if ever he gets to ref a game.







Great post. Most refs are not in good enough shape to keep up with the game and they ref 4-5 games in a row. They are dead and can't do a proper job. I would rather see a young kid who has energy and a good attitude ref the games. To ref at a certain level they should have to pass a fitness test.

Before you start LIRef I am involved with my community club and try to make a difference(even take over priced coaching courses). I do it as a volunteer for the love of the game and the kids. So before you start telling me how hard it is to get criticized at your job try getting criticized as a volunteer. Sometimes we have to be big boys and girls and have thick skin.

I think this initiative by EDP is great. I hope ENY and NYCSL follow. We should applaud people when they try to make positive changes not complain about society. We create the society we live in, if you don't like how things are going start by looking in the mirror.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous414141 #702519 03/14/18 10:19 AM
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Much of it has to come from the clubs. If they don't crack down on poor ref treatment/bad sideline behavior from players, parents and coaches, it will only continue. I've been at clubs that take a hard line on bad behavior and ones that don't. Guess which ones I prefer and also tend to have better run programs and results?

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702521 03/14/18 11:01 AM
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Please note there is no way a 14 year old can be a Grade 8 or be a center referee.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702525 03/14/18 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Please note there is no way a 14 year old can be a Grade 8 or be a center referee.


Please note you should get your facts straight. As per usual, there are so many people on this site and the sidelines, who do not know the LOTG or much at all about reffing, let alone playing. A 14 year old good G9 can begin to referee small sided games under supervision, as did my kid under one of the top LISRA refs, spring last year. Once he was deemed ready, he was able to do more, unsupervised - U9/10 typically. He then became a G8 officially as soon as he was 15 in the fall. I hope you aren't suggesting I had made this up. This is germane to the whole attrition debate.

Perhaps you are just a troll. Well done, you got me. Please be more constructive in future, this was a serious point.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702529 03/14/18 01:14 PM
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You should take a deep breath.

I am not a troll, I am grade 7 referee and I have a son who is also an AR and plays soccer.

Here might be the issue, he started last October. Most of the U9/U10 games are almost finished by then. If at that point he needed supervision, it could be why he was not assigned games. Also, they try to use only experienced referees for the LI Cup games/NY Cup games. Don't take it so personal. He shouldn't have to chase anyone for games. But it sounds like he started late in the season last fall, and the new season has just started. Hopefully we don't lose him. Every week there will be emails of uncovered games he can pick up. Also make sure his travel distance isn't just 5 miles, sometimes that can make him not get assigned.

Good luck

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous414141 #702548 03/14/18 09:23 PM
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He needs to hang in there. He's a new Grade 8 so he may actually get a lot of AR assignments initially because he needs to learn by watching and gaining confidence. The assignors may be taking it easy on him and don't want to "throw him to the wolves" too fast and hurt his development. He needs to try and stay motivated and hang in there and not get discouraged.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
LIRef77 #702549 03/14/18 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LIRef77
He needs to hang in there. He's a new Grade 8 so he may actually get a lot of AR assignments initially because he needs to learn by watching and gaining confidence. The assignors may be taking it easy on him and don't want to "throw him to the wolves" too fast and hurt his development. He needs to try and stay motivated and hang in there and not get discouraged.




Thanks LI ref. That was the initial point. He was G9 at 13, quickly moved to U20 boys AR and Ladies’ U23 AR on self assign, did a stack of small sided and some U13 CR, rarin’ to go, loves the middle but has to pick these games up himself. So he has already watched many games. He’s on decline for AR games per his G9 assignor suggestion but has to chase down the CR spots. Gets them but shouldn’t have to chase them down. Yes, he will hang in there but the original post was that when these kids can pick up a couple of hundred dollars a day on the golf course, at the yacht club, or even bar backing when they are a bit older, the ref associations might want to be looking for the small numbers of young CRs they can encourage, rather than hoping they will hang in there.

This isn’t me hyping my kid. This is my responding to the first post and pointing out that many young, keen refs who are ready, willing and more than capable of CRing are not being encouraged and you could lose them without realizing why. The thread is all about young referee attrition. Just saying that it’s not only because they are being abused .

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
LIRef77 #702559 03/15/18 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous414141


I disagree. It's a tremendously LATE start. Why do we need to institute "programs" to instill the normal civility that human beings are supposed to exhibit? Why are we allowing adults to continue to be negative role models for young soccer players?
It starts with the Clubs and their Coaches, they are supposed to lead by example and set the tone for the entire team and their culture. It's up to them to address the miscreants that are a minority that continue to ruin it for the majority.
Quite interesting that a "development" league is finally realizing that it is in fact HUMAN development that needs to be addressed. Why do they care now? Because like many leagues they are realizing that if young referees continue to have a huge attrition rate then no amount of money will get them to do it if the environment is so toxic that it is just not worth doing!
All you have to do to see the atmosphere is to see the total lack of civility being exhibited on some of these boards.


It's never too late to start because there are constantly new players and parents coming into the picture. Get them early before they become some of the total idiots who ruin the game for the decent people. As far as the current sideline bad actors, I entirely blame the clubs and coaches. They don't set standards and demand excellent behavior on the sidelines from their fans or many times even their players. Clubs must demand accountability from their people and when they don't behave civilly at games they need to be dealt with swiftly.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702561 03/15/18 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
He needs to hang in there. He's a new Grade 8 so he may actually get a lot of AR assignments initially because he needs to learn by watching and gaining confidence. The assignors may be taking it easy on him and don't want to "throw him to the wolves" too fast and hurt his development. He needs to try and stay motivated and hang in there and not get discouraged.




Thanks LI ref. That was the initial point. He was G9 at 13, quickly moved to U20 boys AR and Ladies’ U23 AR on self assign, did a stack of small sided and some U13 CR, rarin’ to go, loves the middle but has to pick these games up himself. So he has already watched many games. He’s on decline for AR games per his G9 assignor suggestion but has to chase down the CR spots. Gets them but shouldn’t have to chase them down. Yes, he will hang in there but the original post was that when these kids can pick up a couple of hundred dollars a day on the golf course, at the yacht club, or even bar backing when they are a bit older, the ref associations might want to be looking for the small numbers of young CRs they can encourage, rather than hoping they will hang in there.

This isn’t me hyping my kid. This is my responding to the first post and pointing out that many young, keen refs who are ready, willing and more than capable of CRing are not being encouraged and you could lose them without realizing why. The thread is all about young referee attrition. Just saying that it’s not only because they are being abused .


Start giving out RED CARDS to the COACHES and TRAINERS for bad behavior of PARENTS . When TEAMS forfeit the games it will STOP.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702566 03/15/18 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
Originally Posted by Anonymous414141


I disagree. It's a tremendously LATE start. Why do we need to institute "programs" to instill the normal civility that human beings are supposed to exhibit? Why are we allowing adults to continue to be negative role models for young soccer players?
It starts with the Clubs and their Coaches, they are supposed to lead by example and set the tone for the entire team and their culture. It's up to them to address the miscreants that are a minority that continue to ruin it for the majority.
Quite interesting that a "development" league is finally realizing that it is in fact HUMAN development that needs to be addressed. Why do they care now? Because like many leagues they are realizing that if young referees continue to have a huge attrition rate then no amount of money will get them to do it if the environment is so toxic that it is just not worth doing!
All you have to do to see the atmosphere is to see the total lack of civility being exhibited on some of these boards.


It's never too late to start because there are constantly new players and parents coming into the picture. Get them early before they become some of the total idiots who ruin the game for the decent people. As far as the current sideline bad actors, I entirely blame the clubs and coaches. They don't set standards and demand excellent behavior on the sidelines from their fans or many times even their players. Clubs must demand accountability from their people and when they don't behave civilly at games they need to be dealt with swiftly.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LIRef77
He needs to hang in there. He's a new Grade 8 so he may actually get a lot of AR assignments initially because he needs to learn by watching and gaining confidence. The assignors may be taking it easy on him and don't want to "throw him to the wolves" too fast and hurt his development. He needs to try and stay motivated and hang in there and not get discouraged.




Thanks LI ref. That was the initial point. He was G9 at 13, quickly moved to U20 boys AR and Ladies’ U23 AR on self assign, did a stack of small sided and some U13 CR, rarin’ to go, loves the middle but has to pick these games up himself. So he has already watched many games. He’s on decline for AR games per his G9 assignor suggestion but has to chase down the CR spots. Gets them but shouldn’t have to chase them down. Yes, he will hang in there but the original post was that when these kids can pick up a couple of hundred dollars a day on the golf course, at the yacht club, or even bar backing when they are a bit older, the ref associations might want to be looking for the small numbers of young CRs they can encourage, rather than hoping they will hang in there.

This isn’t me hyping my kid. This is my responding to the first post and pointing out that many young, keen refs who are ready, willing and more than capable of CRing are not being encouraged and you could lose them without realizing why. The thread is all about young referee attrition. Just saying that it’s not only because they are being abused .


Start giving out RED CARDS to the COACHES and TRAINERS for bad behavior of PARENTS . When TEAMS forfeit the games it will STOP.



Please don't expect the parents to police each other. Leave that to the coaches and refs, I have seen bigger issues when parents ask others to tone it down. Confronting opposing parents or even fellow team parents is a recipe for disaster.

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Re: EDP - New REP Program.
Anonymous #702575 03/15/18 11:40 AM
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This thread was a post about EDP and its initiative to start enforcing stronger sanctions about bad behavior on the soccer field.
And thus trying to keep younger referees from leaving before they even start.

While it seems you have a young referee looking for games and struggling, that isn't exactly what this thread is entirely about.

That seems like a assignor issue for LISRA. Perhaps your son can look into getting into the DA. If he is as good as suggested, that may be the best place for him to thrive.

I've seen some amazing 15 year old AR/CR's but many of them don't have that passion. You should have him check it out.

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