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Where are all the Referees?
#695497 11/02/17 02:46 PM
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http://www.wbaltv.com/article/bad-behavior-among-some-parents-impacting-youth-sports/13120381

I think parents need to watch this.
I'm a referee and a parent of two boys. We've had so many games not covered due to shortages.
Sometimes referees are travelling 30 miles or more to cover your U9 game.
Some of us are doing 5-6 games a day because we are asked to and because we do actually care regardless of what you may think.

Its time to think about what you are saying and how you are saying it.

Some of the referees out there are just teenagers. And the incoming refs quit before we even get a chance to really teach them.
Just remember that screaming and throwing insults will never help your cause and that the children feed off of your emotions.


I'm not sure Larry will approve this, but I think we all need to take a good look at how we behave on and off the pitch.

Thanks

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695524 11/02/17 06:33 PM
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I have been posting about this for years. I have been asking people for years to try and be compassionate and try and be patient especially with new referees. Nothing has changed except maybe that it is getting worse every year. Being a referee is not for everyone and you need to develop very thick skin to do it.

We do have tools to keep the game in control and keep it civil. It is however getting more difficult to recruit and keep referees. What are your games like? Are the sights and sounds around your game appropriate for children to hear? If so what are you doing about it and how does your child feel about it?

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
LIRef77 #695525 11/02/17 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LIRef77
I have been posting about this for years. I have been asking people for years to try and be compassionate and try and be patient especially with new referees. Nothing has changed except maybe that it is getting worse every year. Being a referee is not for everyone and you need to develop very thick skin to do it.

We do have tools to keep the game in control and keep it civil. It is however getting more difficult to recruit and keep referees. What are your games like? Are the sights and sounds around your game appropriate for children to hear? If so what are you doing about it and how does your child feel about it?



People should not berate the referees (especially are younger folks who are just breaking into it). However, the referee associations from intramural through high school need to occasionally evaluate the performance of their referees. Some referees are just plain horrific. At times, people leave their homes and travel great distances for games, only to have it skewed by poor referees. There really needs to be oversight. Some referees are so horrible that serious injuries have occurred as a result. This does not give people the right to be disrespectful, but oversight needs to occur and when poor referees are identified, they need additional training, or perhaps they should only do U5 games.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695535 11/02/17 07:43 PM
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Yes, there is a referee shortage. Locally, (Long Island) between LIJSL, NYCSL, NPL, NY Cup, Metro League, GDA, ECNL, and ENY games, why is anyone surprised? The amount of games on any given weekend, spread over a very large area is, in part, contributing to the shortage. However, there is blame to go around.

On more than one occasion, I reached out to LISRA only to be rebuffed by their president, Cathy Caldwell, and John Sengelaub. Once, I received a reply from Cathy saying she would be in touch, and that was at least 7 years ago, and John is anti-BOTN on steroids!!

Credit has to be given to Gary Grossman. Gary, seeing the exponential growth of NYCSL years ago wanted to confront what was already an issue, and get BOTN and LISRA to work together to promote the benefits of reffing from multiple points of view. Had LISRA not been brain-dead, and politically beholding to LIJSL, I'm confident that the referee ranks would have benefited greatly, and would have continued to this day.

PS..I can't remember a time in the past 27 years when there wasn't a referee shortage on Long Island.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695539 11/02/17 09:13 PM
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The solution is not within any referee organization's power to fix. It's pure and simple, the demand is high, the supply is low and the working conditions can be horrible, abusive and sub-par. Many referees do five straight games, many at school fields with no bathroom or any other facilities. You have to love the game and care enough to put up with all the negatives and there are many. No matter how many classes are run many either quit right away or never really commit to it. I have asked people how many would step up because any one person can make a difference because it starts with one and can become many. Not one has even responded anonymously to want to be a referee on these boards. What does that tell you? Don't ask me, ask the hundreds of young referees, many of them teenagers that are mostly Grade 9 referees and work primarily as ARs, ask them what it's like.
I've said it so many times, we have among the finest teenage referees in the NY area as in the rest of the country. How do I know this? Because I get to work with them and they bust their tails to try their best.
As far as the referee critics out there, you are not exactly an unbiased observer that can evaluate referees because most people just don't have a basic knowledge of the LOTG let alone the changes. Many, many referees are evaluated out there just because you don't see it does not mean it is not happening. When I work with Grade 9s as ARs I am required to evaluate them and help determine if they are suitable for higher level games. We're not perfect, but even World Cup world class referees make mistakes.
I can handle it because I have enough experience and confidence but the atmosphere has been getting worse every year. It can get really silly with the U littles and their "rookie" parents.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
LIRef77 #695549 11/02/17 11:54 PM
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I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695564 11/03/17 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695567 11/03/17 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

Oh the old, "I wasn't talking to you" excuse, you just happened to be in earshot when I was talking to her. That works in baseball too.

You don't know what was said but are quick to blame the ref? Maybe the sideline had been warned enough. Why can't spectators just go and watch their kids, root and cheer, and go home? Everyone is an "expert", because they have been on the sidelines for a couple years watching rec soccer with other "experts". You people have no role in the match, yet think it's OK to try to inject your "wisdom" onto it.

Everyone seems to have a bad ref story, yet it is pathetic what goes on on the sidelines each and every match. I would not even consider sending my daughter to ref a match without me, as it is so ridiculous what I have seen teenagers endure from adults over things as trivial as throw-ins in a young players' rec match. Spectators need to examine themselves and their behavior and stop rationalizing it with excuses about the "bad" ref. People like this should not be attending if you can't do so without critiquing. I only wish "zero tolerance" was actually enforced.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695569 11/03/17 09:25 AM
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Ahhhh....the old "I wasn't talking to you" excuse.

Ha.

Sounds like this official was being abused pretty good. U12? Yeah. Not surprised. Every game is World Cup to those parents

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695572 11/03/17 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

Oh the old, "I wasn't talking to you" excuse, you just happened to be in earshot when I was talking to her. That works in baseball too.

You don't know what was said but are quick to blame the ref? Maybe the sideline had been warned enough. Why can't spectators just go and watch their kids, root and cheer, and go home? Everyone is an "expert", because they have been on the sidelines for a couple years watching rec soccer with other "experts". You people have no role in the match, yet think it's OK to try to inject your "wisdom" onto it.

Everyone seems to have a bad ref story, yet it is pathetic what goes on on the sidelines each and every match. I would not even consider sending my daughter to ref a match without me, as it is so ridiculous what I have seen teenagers endure from adults over things as trivial as throw-ins in a young players' rec match. Spectators need to examine themselves and their behavior and stop rationalizing it with excuses about the "bad" ref. People like this should not be attending if you can't do so without critiquing. I only wish "zero tolerance" was actually enforced.



As I said in my first response, I asked my wife a question as to what the call was, as I did not see it. I was not critiquing the call or questioning the call.

Yes I am quick to blame the ref in this instance because of what I saw during the entire game. He was engaging the parents every chance he could. You cannot as an official entertain the comments/stupidity of parents. It's that simple. I also never said he was a "bad" ref. He seemed to know what he was doing from what I could tell.

I agree, I would also not send my child to ref a match without me. Too many idiots in this world.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695578 11/03/17 10:10 AM
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I challenge anyone to audiotape their game and hold a team meeting and listen to what goes on because people are just seemingly unaware of their behavior. Even if they say nothing about the referee the number of parents shouting at the children, giving them instructions on what to do with the ball every second is counterproductive to the Coach's strategy and instructions. Most if not all children try to ignore it but it is out of control and confusing the players. It teaches them nothing and tells them that they do not have enough soccer intelligence to play the game so the parents have to yell instructions to them the entire game.

The idea of development is a joke because no one has the patience to lose a game and see that their team is developing, learning and advancing. Errors will be made and that is how even the best athletes learn. Unfortunately there is zero tolerance for mistakes and losses and that takes all the fun out of the game.

So imagine like a referee or a player, being at work, and being screamed at the entire time while trying your best and actually being forced to make errors because the environment being created is so counterproductive to ANYTHING positive and the NOISE just frustrates your ability to think clearly if you allow it to overwhelm you.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695579 11/03/17 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

Oh the old, "I wasn't talking to you" excuse, you just happened to be in earshot when I was talking to her. That works in baseball too.

You don't know what was said but are quick to blame the ref? Maybe the sideline had been warned enough. Why can't spectators just go and watch their kids, root and cheer, and go home? Everyone is an "expert", because they have been on the sidelines for a couple years watching rec soccer with other "experts". You people have no role in the match, yet think it's OK to try to inject your "wisdom" onto it.

Everyone seems to have a bad ref story, yet it is pathetic what goes on on the sidelines each and every match. I would not even consider sending my daughter to ref a match without me, as it is so ridiculous what I have seen teenagers endure from adults over things as trivial as throw-ins in a young players' rec match. Spectators need to examine themselves and their behavior and stop rationalizing it with excuses about the "bad" ref. People like this should not be attending if you can't do so without critiquing. I only wish "zero tolerance" was actually enforced.



As I said in my first response, I asked my wife a question as to what the call was, as I did not see it. I was not critiquing the call or questioning the call.

Yes I am quick to blame the ref in this instance because of what I saw during the entire game. He was engaging the parents every chance he could. You cannot as an official entertain the comments/stupidity of parents. It's that simple. I also never said he was a "bad" ref. He seemed to know what he was doing from what I could tell.

I agree, I would also not send my child to ref a match without me. Too many idiots in this world.


I will not assume, as I was not there, but I have never seen a center ref engage parents during a match. I see, virtually every week, parents engaging the ref. That is the problem. And in my opinion, it is compounded by the fact that people, such as yourself, think the ref is to blame because he/she attempts to control the situation. If spectators did not instigate, there would be no need for the referee to be "constantly looking to the parents sideline". I am glad the referee tried to control the situation, and highly doubt it was unprovoked or unnecessary. Your implication that it makes the ref unfit and should not be refereeing is laughable.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695581 11/03/17 10:43 AM
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I made this post because like Larry said, yes there has always been a shortage, but never has there been so many games, so many leagues and so many games back to back. Not to mention that each of these leagues, age groups etc have completely different rules. I make it a point to know all my rules. And yes, there are some bad referee's out there, but at the end of the day he/she is responsible for keeping you're child safe. And you are a distraction when you continually make inappropriate comments.

I do wanna say this to anyone who will listen and is a parent: Please stop screaming handball. We beg you. Please just for like 5 minutes read the handball law and its description. When you scream handball, the kids stop playing. Last week two goals scored (U11) because the parents were yelling out instructions.
Also, please don't scream shoot the ball at the halfway line.

I sit on the sidelines for my boys games. Its disgusting what people say. Not just about the ref but about your coaches and about your kids. The verbal abuse I take, and mostly on the boys side is becoming not worth it. I love this game so much, but when I leave the field, the anger doesn't just go away. IT follows me to my next game.

I understand what goes along with being a ref, believe me, my son won't do it. He tried one game and quit. I have very thick skin. But a person can only take so much berating while at work.

I'm not here to complain, but to maybe suggest that if you see a parent over-reacting, freaking out, being abusive to anyone at the field, record them and send it to your club or league. Do it anonymously.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695582 11/03/17 10:43 AM
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Re: Where are all the Referees?
LIRef77 #695586 11/03/17 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LIRef77
I challenge anyone to audiotape their game and hold a team meeting and listen to what goes on because people are just seemingly unaware of their behavior. Even if they say nothing about the referee the number of parents shouting at the children, giving them instructions on what to do with the ball every second is counterproductive to the Coach's strategy and instructions. Most if not all children try to ignore it but it is out of control and confusing the players. It teaches them nothing and tells them that they do not have enough soccer intelligence to play the game so the parents have to yell instructions to them the entire game.

The idea of development is a joke because no one has the patience to lose a game and see that their team is developing, learning and advancing. Errors will be made and that is how even the best athletes learn. Unfortunately there is zero tolerance for mistakes and losses and that takes all the fun out of the game.

So imagine like a referee or a player, being at work, and being screamed at the entire time while trying your best and actually being forced to make errors because the environment being created is so counterproductive to ANYTHING positive and the NOISE just frustrates your ability to think clearly if you allow it to overwhelm you.




I'll give you a specific instance. You probably know my kid, Mr/Mrs LI REF, he just got his G8, is one of the youngest out there and plays at a pretty decent level too. He knows the game inside out, I have even seen him politely have a goal overturned when he was playing, as the AR had missed that the goalie was not the last defender. He knows his stuff. Unfortunately, most parents and many coaches don't. I'm a Brit, so I grew up with the game and I thought I knew it all until I did the ref courses with him - there's nuance that most parents, many players and most of the TV commentators don't even get, especially when it's time for the AR to raise the flag.

So he reffed a game in Northport a couple of weeks ago, a home game for a bottom tier U13 girls Elwood side. The parents were screaming. All game. Then he played advantage on an Elwood breakaway and when the advantage did not accrue, he brought the ball back and gave Elwood a free kick from where the foul had happened. It was their free kick. It was their ball and they had not a chance of scoring on the break. Did they thank him? They went bloody nuts. 'Take off that shirt, ref'. He played advantage a few minutes later, allowed the kid who was being fouled to wriggle free and take a clean shot on goal. What did the parents do? 'That's a foul, ref, are you blind? Why aren't you calling fouls'. He's fifteen years old for Christ's sake. He looks older but seriously? A bottom of the barrel rec game at best, yet they thought it was the FA cup final and that they had the right to verbally abuse a young man who was a) cutting his teeth in the game and b) doing them a favour. For $57 it was a big favour. Here's the funny thing...he let the game flow, maybe more than they've seen before and at the end, the parents all agreed it had been a great and exciting game, much more than usual, what a shame the ref was so bad.

I am actually getting really pissed off just writing this so I'll leave it there. Fortunately he can handle himself and says he'll be back for more. He just unblocked his November Saturdays, so he's up for it. I have to drive him, so I think I'll stay in the car in future, it's really tough to have one's kid verbally abused and stay quiet.

Please parents, please - unless you have taken and passed a G8 course - knock it on the head. You really don't know, even if you think you do. I didn't and I thought I did. And Elwood? Shame on you.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695591 11/03/17 11:40 AM
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We recently had a game where the young assistant referee clearly was in wrong position on free kick (not lined up with second to last defender) and therefore missed an offside call that led to an easy breakaway goal against my sons team. While a bit frustrating, oh well. He was just a teenage boy learning and made a mistake, likely will improve from realizing the error or the experienced center referee likely will help teach him at halftime or after game.

What I found ironic and see often, is that the opposing coach shortly after started berating the same young kid (who just helped his team when missing a critical call) yelling at the assistant referee for failing to call a ball out of bounds near midfield line. The kid said from his view that the whole ball did not go out over entire line. He may have been right or wrong, I don't know, but kid seemed to be aware of the correct interpretation of the rule and confident. This same coach then completely went over the top yelling at this same kid another 5-10 minutes later for calling a similar ball out, again about 50 yards from the goal for a throw in. This was the head coach (man) yelling at a kid. Not sure why the experienced center referee didnt step in to put a stop to it since the coach simply couldnt control himself. I did hear parents telling the coach to stop yelling at him that he was somebody's kid.

Do we really want to have these games on 120 yard turf fields be officiated by a single ref, since we blast all the kids learning as new assistant referees and they just stop coming back because of the abuse?

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695594 11/03/17 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

Oh the old, "I wasn't talking to you" excuse, you just happened to be in earshot when I was talking to her. That works in baseball too.

You don't know what was said but are quick to blame the ref? Maybe the sideline had been warned enough. Why can't spectators just go and watch their kids, root and cheer, and go home? Everyone is an "expert", because they have been on the sidelines for a couple years watching rec soccer with other "experts". You people have no role in the match, yet think it's OK to try to inject your "wisdom" onto it.

Everyone seems to have a bad ref story, yet it is pathetic what goes on on the sidelines each and every match. I would not even consider sending my daughter to ref a match without me, as it is so ridiculous what I have seen teenagers endure from adults over things as trivial as throw-ins in a young players' rec match. Spectators need to examine themselves and their behavior and stop rationalizing it with excuses about the "bad" ref. People like this should not be attending if you can't do so without critiquing. I only wish "zero tolerance" was actually enforced.



As I said in my first response, I asked my wife a question as to what the call was, as I did not see it. I was not critiquing the call or questioning the call.

Yes I am quick to blame the ref in this instance because of what I saw during the entire game. He was engaging the parents every chance he could. You cannot as an official entertain the comments/stupidity of parents. It's that simple. I also never said he was a "bad" ref. He seemed to know what he was doing from what I could tell.

I agree, I would also not send my child to ref a match without me. Too many idiots in this world.


I will not assume, as I was not there, but I have never seen a center ref engage parents during a match. I see, virtually every week, parents engaging the ref. That is the problem. And in my opinion, it is compounded by the fact that people, such as yourself, think the ref is to blame because he/she attempts to control the situation. If spectators did not instigate, there would be no need for the referee to be "constantly looking to the parents sideline". I am glad the referee tried to control the situation, and highly doubt it was unprovoked or unnecessary. Your implication that it makes the ref unfit and should not be refereeing is laughable.



There is video of the ref's actions, I will not post it though. I agree, parents shouldn't be engaging the ref. I have also been around sports long enough to know this probably will never change.

In this instance, the ref was not trying to control any situation. There was no situation to control. He was being antagonistic. When he slammed the ball on the ground it was maybe 5 yards from the sideline and 20 yards from where I was. There was no yelling and it was pretty quiet considering a girl was being helped off the field. Someone says something on the sideline, to which he has his back turned to, he turns and points to himself, turns back to the play and slams the ball into the ground. What could have been said to prompt that type of behavior?

Shortly thereafter he called a foul by, for lack of a better word, frolicking, with his arm extended for about 5 yards. Again, being antagonistic.

Maybe he had a bad day, maybe he has been a referee too long, I don't know the answer, what I do know his behavior that day is not indicative of the way a referee should carry his/herself.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695624 11/03/17 02:06 PM
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There are specific procedures on dealing with spectators and it is NEVER a good idea for a referee to deal directly with a parent as no matter what and how you say it, he or she may just be waiting to explode on you.
There are many examples on this board about spectators not being knowledgeable about the LOTG. They are not always aware of advantage even if the referee signals and calls it out, how would anyone but the players hear it with the noise levels being so high? People do not notice that if there is a handball and it goes to an opponent there is no need to blow the whistle and stop the flow of the game. Those are just 2 examples of misunderstood principles.
In some leagues on Long Island the best way to deal with an out of control parent is to determine from the Coaches whose side the parent is on. That Coach then gets a yellow card, that parent is ejected from the game. If they choose to not obey then the game is terminated by the referee and the incident is written up in the game report. Then whatever the league procedure is they determine whether the game should be replayed or considered a forfeit. That usually nips it in the bud immediately. Any AR that gets yelled at in my game by a parent demands an immediate ejection, so simple, it's not personal it's business. It's hard to be businesslike sometimes but you have to show total control in your emotions especially when someone else is a screaming, blithering, twit.

You folks out in youth soccer land may not realize it but people can be like sheep, it starts with one and quickly develops in to a hateful mob if you let it. Toss in two bitter rival teams and Coaches that don't like each other and it can be a powder keg. If you allow it to fester it can get ugly quickly and you can lose control of a game and then lose the player's respect. Then you're done. We can all have a bad game. Yes I have missed some calls, it happens. But when people get irrational and they verbally attack ARs they need to pay a price and end it there. I don't like to see the child's face whose parent I had the Coach eject, but I will not hesitate to do it when the need arises.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695625 11/03/17 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by CJ Orlando
I find it a tad funny that none of the parents are posting about this. Guess they might see themselves.


My daughter played a cup game last week, u12, where the referee actually slammed the ball on the ground, which proceeded to bounce nearly 10 feet in the air, to restart the game as a "drop ball" after a girl was injured. Why? He was mad a parent said something to him from the sideline.

Now I don't know what was said because it came from the other team's sideline, but this referee was consistently looking to the parents sideline to confront any one who was saying anything he was in a ear shot of. At one point during the game he turned to me and put his finger over his mouth telling me to be quiet. Meanwhile, I had said nothing to him, or about him. I asked my wife a question about a call that I didn't see. He also was very in tune with what was going on with the field next to us because the coaches from those teams were very loud.

Someone like this should not be refereeing, regardless of the shortage. Being out there constantly looking for confrontation and acting like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum on a drop ball is unacceptable behavior. I umpired baseball for 16 years, maybe in all these years threw 2 people out of a game, while many more deserved it. People are going to disagree with calls, and yes some of them will be a$$holes about it, but being in that position you should be the bigger person and diffuse the situation, not add to it.

Oh the old, "I wasn't talking to you" excuse, you just happened to be in earshot when I was talking to her. That works in baseball too.

You don't know what was said but are quick to blame the ref? Maybe the sideline had been warned enough. Why can't spectators just go and watch their kids, root and cheer, and go home? Everyone is an "expert", because they have been on the sidelines for a couple years watching rec soccer with other "experts". You people have no role in the match, yet think it's OK to try to inject your "wisdom" onto it.

Everyone seems to have a bad ref story, yet it is pathetic what goes on on the sidelines each and every match. I would not even consider sending my daughter to ref a match without me, as it is so ridiculous what I have seen teenagers endure from adults over things as trivial as throw-ins in a young players' rec match. Spectators need to examine themselves and their behavior and stop rationalizing it with excuses about the "bad" ref. People like this should not be attending if you can't do so without critiquing. I only wish "zero tolerance" was actually enforced.



As I said in my first response, I asked my wife a question as to what the call was, as I did not see it. I was not critiquing the call or questioning the call.

Yes I am quick to blame the ref in this instance because of what I saw during the entire game. He was engaging the parents every chance he could. You cannot as an official entertain the comments/stupidity of parents. It's that simple. I also never said he was a "bad" ref. He seemed to know what he was doing from what I could tell.

I agree, I would also not send my child to ref a match without me. Too many idiots in this world.


I will not assume, as I was not there, but I have never seen a center ref engage parents during a match. I see, virtually every week, parents engaging the ref. That is the problem. And in my opinion, it is compounded by the fact that people, such as yourself, think the ref is to blame because he/she attempts to control the situation. If spectators did not instigate, there would be no need for the referee to be "constantly looking to the parents sideline". I am glad the referee tried to control the situation, and highly doubt it was unprovoked or unnecessary. Your implication that it makes the ref unfit and should not be refereeing is laughable.



There is video of the ref's actions, I will not post it though. I agree, parents shouldn't be engaging the ref. I have also been around sports long enough to know this probably will never change.

In this instance, the ref was not trying to control any situation. There was no situation to control. He was being antagonistic. When he slammed the ball on the ground it was maybe 5 yards from the sideline and 20 yards from where I was. There was no yelling and it was pretty quiet considering a girl was being helped off the field. Someone says something on the sideline, to which he has his back turned to, he turns and points to himself, turns back to the play and slams the ball into the ground. What could have been said to prompt that type of behavior?

Shortly thereafter he called a foul by, for lack of a better word, frolicking, with his arm extended for about 5 yards. Again, being antagonistic.

Maybe he had a bad day, maybe he has been a referee too long, I don't know the answer, what I do know his behavior that day is not indicative of the way a referee should carry his/herself.

First you say the other sideline said things to the ref, now you say HE was being antagonistic. First you say he was consistently looking to the parents sideline, now it was during a quiet time. I can't follow all your story changes and really have no more desire to do so.

Bottom line, 999,999 times out of 1,000,000, the referee will not act or engage spectators on the sideline unless they provoke and deserve it. If this was the one in a million, so sorry you had to experience that. Yet this is the story you want to tell, instead of the countless others that occur regularly which ruin the game and damage the spirits of our players and refs. This speaks volumes of you and shows how much of a problem this really is. Good day sir!

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695628 11/03/17 02:26 PM
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I bet It went something along these lines:

U-12 Cup Game.
Parents screaming entire game.
Ref being screamed and questioned at every call.
Ref doesn't know who said what but he overhears a parent saying something about his recent calls and tells you to be quiet since you are the one he hears (Big sideline). You are offended.
He's the worst Ref every.
Clearly has anger management problems because he bounced the ball high on a drop ball and he ran with hand in the air for 5 yards signalling for a foul.

Yeah, he's crazy lol

*Please note that for IFK (Indirect Free Kick), the referee should keep his hand in the air. Sometimes with the little kids I will keep my hand up for the DFK as well so they don't ask me.

But I'm just confused by your description of the game. You at first say a parent was making comments to him from the sideline.
Then you say no one said anything, there was no situation and he was being antagonistic. So which is it?

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695634 11/03/17 02:43 PM
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I've been to HS games and witnessed horrific abuse hurled at the referees. Every call was met with not just jeers, but pure abuse. Most of these referees were older gentlemen and maybe it is me, but what are you teaching the younger generation? I wonder if that is why only older referees for HS games exist? At least in league games, there is a sort of governance (zero tolerance, etc) but HS games are like a free for all.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695644 11/03/17 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I bet It went something along these lines:

U-12 Cup Game.
Parents screaming entire game.
Ref being screamed and questioned at every call.
Ref doesn't know who said what but he overhears a parent saying something about his recent calls and tells you to be quiet since you are the one he hears (Big sideline). You are offended.
He's the worst Ref every.
Clearly has anger management problems because he bounced the ball high on a drop ball and he ran with hand in the air for 5 yards signalling for a foul.

Yeah, he's crazy lol

*Please note that for IFK (Indirect Free Kick), the referee should keep his hand in the air. Sometimes with the little kids I will keep my hand up for the DFK as well so they don't ask me.

But I'm just confused by your description of the game. You at first say a parent was making comments to him from the sideline.
Then you say no one said anything, there was no situation and he was being antagonistic. So which is it?











I am not exactly sure what is so confusing or hard to understand.

Ref was consistently addressing parents on the sidelines in an antagonistic manner (no I don't know what was said, it wasn't coming from me or our parents).

Ref turned to me after I asked my wife, who was sitting next to me, what the call was on a play that I didn't see, and put his finger over his mouth to "shh" me, again antagonistic, ever more so considering I wasn't addressing him or an AR.

After an injury timeout ref again addressed a parent after something was said, and proceeded to, with two hands over his head, slam the ball down as a "drop ball" while turning his back to the play and shaking his head.

Ref calls a foul a few moments later in a sarcastic manner pointing in the direction of the call (no it was not because they were young, nor was it an indirect kick).

I will say it again, never said he was the worst referee or even a bad referee. I am not a soccer referee nor do I know every rule or pretend to know every rule. What I do know is this particular referee acted immature and consistently instigated parents.

Having umpired for a very long time, I know it takes thick skin and you have to learn to ignore things being said even if you hear them. This ref was doing the complete opposite.

I have watched my daughter play for a number of year and hundreds of games. I have never seen a referee behave in this manner. That's all, I am done.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous414141 #695662 11/03/17 06:48 PM
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Here are some tips I would offer up to referees of all ages and skill levels:

1: Know the rules. It shouldn't be that hard. Know when an indirect kick is appropriate, know that you can't be offsides if you were in your defensive half when the ball was kicked, know that a goalie deflection or the ball hitting the goal frame does not reset offsides, etc.

2: If you are reffing with linesmen, look to them for help. You don't need to see everything, but use the 2 other pairs of eyes. In too many games I see zero communication between the linesmen and the ref.

3: If you are a linesman, speak up! You're allowed to call a foul if the ref misses it. My son is only U13 but I've already seen kids who have realized they can do anything they want to an opponent once the ref turns his back.

4. Try your best to be in position. There's nothing worse than a linesman that does not move with the last defender or a referee that doesn't leave the center circle. And finally,

5. Call games tight in the opening 10-15 minutes. Set that tone early and you'll have fewer problems the rest of the way.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695664 11/03/17 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here are some tips I would offer up to referees of all ages and skill levels:

1: Know the rules. It shouldn't be that hard. Know when an indirect kick is appropriate, know that you can't be offsides if you were in your defensive half when the ball was kicked, know that a goalie deflection or the ball hitting the goal frame does not reset offsides, etc.

2: If you are reffing with linesmen, look to them for help. You don't need to see everything, but use the 2 other pairs of eyes. In too many games I see zero communication between the linesmen and the ref.

3: If you are a linesman, speak up! You're allowed to call a foul if the ref misses it. My son is only U13 but I've already seen kids who have realized they can do anything they want to an opponent once the ref turns his back.

4. Try your best to be in position. There's nothing worse than a linesman that does not move with the last defender or a referee that doesn't leave the center circle. And finally,

5. Call games tight in the opening 10-15 minutes. Set that tone early and you'll have fewer problems the rest of the way.





Well said, a lazy ref does not get a pass from me. I don't really care if it's his 3rd game of the day. It is my kids 1st game. Tired? Don't take the money. Too old to move? Retire. When you accept the money, you accept the responsibility to move with the speed of play. Tournaments get a pass because I am aware they must do many games.
You want an easier game? Take the U little sir an adult league. We paid you for your service, accept the total package. If the fans are rude, report it and avoid later. Expect us to report lousy officials. Two way street.

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Re: Where are all the Referees?
Anonymous #695665 11/03/17 08:25 PM
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So when all refs decide to work 2 games and your kid has no ref for their game expect to see you volunteer to officiate the game. Remember you have the same right to card players coaches and send parents to the parking lot

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