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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller] #461121
02/03/12 11:00 AM
02/03/12 11:00 AM
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You sound like a coach trying to do the right thing. Not once did I defend a referee regarding the award. Are referees perfect? No. Do you think they take the trouble to be recertified every year and work multiple games because they want to do a poor job? Don't blame the referees if the system is not perfect. Some of the complaints strike me as the usual tactic abused today. Don't like the question? Blame the media. Don't like the result of the game? Blame the referee. Still want to argue an inconsequential throw-in call from earlier in the game because you thought I got it wrong? What sense does that make? My comments have been limited to the value of the award and its scoring system. However now you are making comments and assumptions about how referees are scoring that are based on it being their 3rd game and being antagonistic? The system is not perfect. I think the new change reported by a poster regarding weekly posting of the scores will be helpful and increase transparency. If that happens then teams will get immediate feedback and see where they stand week after week.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77] #461129
02/03/12 12:08 PM
02/03/12 12:08 PM

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Originally Posted By: LIRef77
You sound like a coach trying to do the right thing. Not once did I defend a referee regarding the award. Are referees perfect? No. Do you think they take the trouble to be recertified every year and work multiple games because they want to do a poor job? Don't blame the referees if the system is not perfect. Some of the complaints strike me as the usual tactic abused today. Don't like the question? Blame the media. Don't like the result of the game? Blame the referee. Still want to argue an inconsequential throw-in call from earlier in the game because you thought I got it wrong? What sense does that make? My comments have been limited to the value of the award and its scoring system. However now you are making comments and assumptions about how referees are scoring that are based on it being their 3rd game and being antagonistic? The system is not perfect. I think the new change reported by a poster regarding weekly posting of the scores will be helpful and increase transparency. If that happens then teams will get immediate feedback and see where they stand week after week.


Reading theses posts, you can quickly figure out some of the problems, first of all ego, every post is my, my, my. My teams does this, my girls do that. It should always be our team.

Second, the ratings are obvously going to be varied from week to week based on the referee, the game conditions and results. Some refs as stated earlier do not give more than an 8, which means they rarely give even an 8, parents and most coaches act differently based on results, whether you like it or not, there are less complaints and comments when you win. Check the results this year when they are updated weekly, you will score higher in most wins than you do losses.

Third, the quality of refs and personality of the refs flucuate drastically from week to week. Some don't allow players to ask questions, some do not speak during the game, not even to explain a call to avoid confusion, some handle game s the same regardless of age group, some are just abrasive. Some are terrific and the game goes smoothly win or lose. It's a subjective rating that is done differently each week.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller] #461163
02/03/12 02:51 PM
02/03/12 02:51 PM

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Each and every game has different interaction of all involved. As for the end of season results, a team that finished at or near the bottom has been rated by as many as 10 different referees. IMHO, if they are at the bottom there is a reason for it and they deserve it. The same goes for the team at the top of the standings!

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461181
02/03/12 04:09 PM
02/03/12 04:09 PM

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Each and every game has different interaction of all involved. As for the end of season results, a team that finished at or near the bottom has been rated by as many as 10 different referees. IMHO, if they are at the bottom there is a reason for it and they deserve it. The same goes for the team at the top of the standings!


Good point....the team that came in 1st in GU12 D3 came in last in sportmanship by a decent margin. My daughters team was the only team to beat them during the season so the parents were chirpy and borderline obnoxious, especially after going down 0-3 in the 1st half.
I figured the score led to their ire, but like I said, they came in first in the league and after being seen by up to 9 refs during the season, I guess their behavior was consistent during the season.
The funny thing with that ref was that his wife and a few of that teams mothers were BFF's and having a cozy chat during the half. That was probably that teams highest rated sportsmanship week!

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: BoardLord] #461185
02/03/12 04:46 PM
02/03/12 04:46 PM

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LI Ref - how many points off for no armband? How many points off for untucked jerseys (1 point per kid?)

Boardlord is right no printed guidelines.

LISRA has never given me any parameters to grade against.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461214
02/03/12 09:22 PM
02/03/12 09:22 PM

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
LI Ref - how many points off for no armband? How many points off for untucked jerseys (1 point per kid?)

Boardlord is right no printed guidelines.

LISRA has never given me any parameters to grade against.
Are you serious? Every opening season mandatory meeting the sportsmanship ratings were discussed to all referees. If you are a referee and said you did not hear any such thing then you were either sleeping, not paying attention or BSing.

The scoring is 45 points per team

1 to 10 for parents
1 to 10 for players
1 to 10 for coaches
1 to 10 overall
1 to 5 for appearance.

Each referee grades the teams differently and that is the way it is, a referee can reduce 5 points for each time they hear 'what game are you watching' to 'if they push you push them back'.

Why don't you video tape yourselves and than you can play it back to see the ugly truth.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller] #461221
02/03/12 11:05 PM
02/03/12 11:05 PM

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I've coached and watched my 5 kids for the past 11 years in LIJ and putting aside any negative bias that some folks may have for the league, the simple fact that people are taking enough time to write about the sportsmanship award system means that the program is having a positive impact. Like too many topics in this site, some parents will view everything as a competition and that the system is somehow fixed against their team or kid.

The point of the sportsmanship award is not to identify a winner, it is to elevate everyone's awareness of the need for sportsmanship in the game. Sure, it's a way to "acknowledge" teams with consistently high marks for sportsmanship but does it really matter if your team finishes first, second, third or fourth? Of course, the answer is no.

I will tell you that it is not hard to wonder what the sportsmanship levels are of the teams that consistently finish near the bottom of their division. They are certainly "winners" of a different kind of award.

I for one am glad that folks are talking about sportsmanship because it may be the single most important thing that 100% of the players, coaches and parents can take away from the experience.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461224
02/04/12 12:32 AM
02/04/12 12:32 AM

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The reason why sportsmanship is a joke! If the goal is to reward the well behaved, then every team should get a report of how they got their points,or lost points so they know what they need to improve upon. Until I can get specific feedback, then I do not know what my team needs to work on.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461227
02/04/12 03:53 AM
02/04/12 03:53 AM

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Sportsmanship is a joke in LIJ. My daughters team did not get one card all year. They play the game and had fun were never disrespectful. Other teams we played agains the coach got red carded and they still finished ahead of us.

Explain that please. Can you request as a coach for the sportsamnship scores for each game? The only thing people are now going to talk about is it doesn't matter what a team or coach does it's total BS so just play.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461232
02/04/12 08:16 AM
02/04/12 08:16 AM

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Sportsmanship is a joke in LIJ. My daughters team did not get one card all year. They play the game and had fun were never disrespectful. Other teams we played agains the coach got red carded and they still finished ahead of us.

Explain that please. Can you request as a coach for the sportsamnship scores for each game? The only thing people are now going to talk about is it doesn't matter what a team or coach does it's total BS so just play.

so you are saying all ten refs who may rate a little differently were against your team because your team was soooo perfect.... come on wake up like other posters said there is a lot of subjectivity in the scoring but if your team is constantly towards the bottom something is wrong with your team constantly toward the top something is right with your team it is that simple just like you

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller] #461233
02/04/12 08:23 AM
02/04/12 08:23 AM

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I think a previous poster got it right. It's about elevating the good sporting behavior of all. Just because your daughters don't wear a patch, doesn't mean that they player with HONOR. I Coached intramural and then a travel team for 8 years. Too many Coaches worry about the award and the "unfairness" of it. Don't let it keep you from continuing to model sporting behavior to your daughters. Whether you win division championships or sportmanship patches or not hopefully you will have positive experiences to look back on. I think we all need to remember what's important to teach our children. I reffed a GU-11 game this past fall and there was a rabid Dad chasing his right forward daughter down the line SCREAMING at the top of his lungs at her. WHY must this happen?

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461234
02/04/12 08:37 AM
02/04/12 08:37 AM
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If you are taking the time to post officiating questions on this site and your aim is to embarass referees all you are doing is embarassing yourself. If you are really a referee then you should know what site to go to and who your SDI is and other officials in LISRA. IF you are reffing games and filling out scores for sportsmanship without knowing what to do then that is YOUR fault. The scoring system is not rocket science. Get to a meeting. You get a yellow card from me for irresponsible behavior.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461235
02/04/12 08:38 AM
02/04/12 08:38 AM
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I meant play with honor, sorry for the typo

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461252
02/04/12 12:03 PM
02/04/12 12:03 PM

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For those asking for a report card each game or whatever, I would simply say good sportsmanship is like good manners..... you know it when you see it. Coaches and parents should not need a manual or a scorecard.

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Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous] #461267
02/04/12 05:01 PM
02/04/12 05:01 PM

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Some coaches and parents deal with things differently in any sport. Some will contest any call on the field because they think they have knowledge or better yet know a buzz word.

A referee is the best person to handle the scoring because they mostly are not bias against a team unless they are yell at every step on the field. Many referees leave after being confronted by dopey coaches, parents and trainers.

The kids never have any sort of issue until their coaches give them an opening to complain or dissent on calls. Many of you who never ever referee a game do not know what happens on that field.

If you want to get a team breakdown than call the league and ask them for the number to reach the person, I have done that in the past and they have spoken to me about what they saw during the course of a season.

For the coaches that have no idea they could do this have not being paying attention to the league meetings or they do not care about sportsmanship.

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