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#458594 - 01/10/12 11:09 AM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
BU12Coach Offline
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My daughter (HS Jr.) has gotten some interest from a few D1 schools and also some really good academic D3 schools. I believe that there will be some athletic money offered, plus some significant academic money offered from 2 or 3 of the D1 schools. That’s probably going to happen soon and they will be looking for a verbal commitment. Unfortunately it seems like the D3 schools work on a different schedule and we will not be able to get a concrete picture of what they’re going to be able to do financially. While she has a really good GPA she would probably just be an average student at the D3 school and not qualify for much academic money based on academics alone. In making a decision (d1 vs d3) is it safe to assume that with d3 what you see is what you get in terms of financial aid? Or does anyone have some real experience with certain D3 schools able to leverage additional resources for athletes they recruit?

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#458609 - 01/10/12 01:59 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: Anonymous]
BoardLord Offline
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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
of course a student loan can not be considered part of a full ride however academic or hardship money can. (are there any kids who qualify for no academic or hardship money ever given full rides? I think it must be EXTREMELY rare) Pure athletic full rides are about non existant aren't they?
BOTN has been telling this same story for at least the last five years here on the College Board and before our launch. Remember that when you have 25+ players on a roster and a dozen (or so) scholarships, for one person to get a full scholarship on athletics alone means that someone else is getting less than their share - or nothing.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
are there many D1 schools still looking at kids their senior year?
There are quality players that will decide to not follow through on a verbal commitment and therefore come back into the pool for NCAA Division I school consideration. Coaches are always seeking talent for their rosters. However, most (in excess of 90%) Division I athletic money for soccer will have already been allocated before the summer season closes in Junior Year.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I see late sophmroe and Jr year when things are at full tilt. (D1 only again)
The biggest shock that some parents will see in the Division I recruitment wars is that first financial offers will be assigned for top recruits by Christmas time of the Junior Year. Most (in excess of 90%) of Division I money is typically allocated shortly after the Memorial Day Showcases in the Junior Year. So, it does not mean that the Division I well is dry, but the name institutions in the soccer world will have already made their decisions from that recruiting class.

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#458611 - 01/10/12 02:09 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BU12Coach]
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Originally Posted By: BU12Coach
My daughter (HS Jr.) has gotten some interest from a few D1 schools and also some really good academic D3 schools.
Certainly, the NESCAC schools offer outstanding educations in the Division III environment. Schools such as Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Colby and others in this Division III camp offer outstanding educations.

Originally Posted By: BU12Coach
I believe that there will be some athletic money offered, plus some significant academic money offered from 2 or 3 of the D1 schools. That’s probably going to happen soon and they will be looking for a verbal commitment.
The midpoint of Junior Year is when the first serious offers (typically, just after Disney) start to take shape. Candidates will often be asked for indications of interest in an effort to allow the coach for form his/her recruiting class. Players will be monitored throughout their Junior and Senior club seasons for progress and any adjustments required.

Originally Posted By: BU12Coach
Unfortunately it seems like the D3 schools work on a different schedule and we will not be able to get a concrete picture of what they’re going to be able to do financially.
Yes, this is a sound observation. Division III schools will firm up their classes during the summer of Junior/Senior Year into the first half of the Senior year. On Financial Aid, you can assume that offers based on the FAFSA calculation will be similar. If you have already completed a FAFSA and calculated your Effective Family Contribution ("EFC"), offering this data to any of the Division III schools in which your child has an interest could afford you an indication of what might be expected in terms of Financial Aid.

Originally Posted By: BU12Coach
While she has a really good GPA she would probably just be an average student at the D3 school and not qualify for much academic money based on academics alone. In making a decision (d1 vs d3) is it safe to assume that with d3 what you see is what you get in terms of financial aid?
Aside from approaching the Financial Aid department with the numbers we have suggested, BOTN is not sure what the "what you see if what you get" comment means. Schools basing aid on FAFSA/EFC alone will, based on endowments, generally calculate roughly the same "need" for a family.

Originally Posted By: BU12Coach
Or does anyone have some real experience with certain D3 schools able to leverage additional resources for athletes they recruit?
If Westone should come onto the message board (we will send Westone a private message), significant Division III experience and knowledge can be brought to the table with first hand experience. Let us see what we can do to contact Westone.

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#458615 - 01/10/12 02:56 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
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Broadly speaking D1 and D3 schools have very different recruiting cycles and offer very different college experiances. D1 Ivy is somewhere in the middle with D3 Nescac being on the extreme end. The first question that must be answered is how much of your daughter's college years does she want to defined by being a soccer player (Div 1) or by being a student who happens to play a sport one semester (Nescac). Almost all Div 1 programs and indeed some Div 3 programs play a Fall (full) and Spring (varies) season. Nescac is the only conference I am aware of the prohibits its athletes from playing their sport out of season. Many Nescac schools also bar students from playing more than one sport. You are there for the eductaion, not to be a full time athlete, part time student.

As a general rule (D3 is can be more school specific), D3 schools / coaches decide on there recruits in September / October of the students' senior year and almost everyone who is on the team is part of the ED process. D3 coaches can be less transparent because they are always looking for best players they can find that can get into their school. Each D3 school has different academic standards and yes coaches have some influence, but if boards and grades are not there, a coach cannot get you in.

D3 recruiting means you need to understand the early read process and you need to be sure you ask coaches- exactly where am i in your list of recruits overall and form my position. Coaches will not usually give you this answer unless you ask for it.

I am well aware of a number of D3 students who applied to schools who either did not get in or got in but did not make the team due to a lack of understanding of the process.

Financial aid at most D3 schools is needs based. Merits scholorships can show up, but mainly show up if there is both a need and the school wants you academically, in other words, you have grades or what not that makes them want you. All of this happens later in the process than D1 scholorship money.

As has been noted on this board, remember that scholorship money is 'renewed' every year and can and does change for many athletes short of the stars on the team or at top D1 schools. Once you are at a D3 school, they will do everything within their resouces to make sure the aid is there every year, it just may change some.

If there are specific questions beyond the lenghty response above, please let us know. I hope this is of some help. I have a daughter who plays for one of the top Nesdac schools, looked at both Div 1 and a number of Div 3 schools but I will admit am a tad weak on the financial aid details; having said that, any coach that expresess a high level of interest can readily obtain aid answers.
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#458619 - 01/10/12 03:22 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
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Let me add that across most D3 schools, the amount of aid that you would get, beyone needs based; that is some sort of merit scholorship that is leveraged by a coach is possible, but it is not the norm. I have heard of some athletes getting merit type scholorships in addition to their aid but they are often on the small side (2K per semester) (these are 55K per year schools) and they only show up for recruits that are impact players.

Most of this sort of package is not visable until after you have actually applied ED.
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Play soccer, live simple, die happy.

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#458655 - 01/10/12 07:29 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
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My daughter is a Freshman that plays on a premier team and started for her high school team I believe she can be a D1 player if thats what she wants. She is an excellent student and would like to study a health related major. Does anyone know which D1 schools if any do not play year round.

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#458664 - 01/10/12 08:01 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Westone Offline
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Its fair to say that in D1, like D3 and why not D2 as well, there is a huge range of commitment options. Most college programs play or have a committed practice year round ex D3 Nescac. Its the attendance and commitment levels that vary. Most D3 schools, regardless of spring play allow juniors to study abroad; very few D1 schools have that on offer.

Its also fair to say that the level of play in both D1 and D3 and yes D2 varies beyond what most people think. The top 10 D3 schools would be competitive in the top 30 and below D1 schools easily. Top 15 D1 is night and day from other D1 play so to say should could play D1 does not really mean all that much. There are a lot of D1 schools that have competitive teams but in reality the school's club team is better, why because a lot of kids who decided to go to school there opted out of he school's program and decided to actually go to college and play a sport on the side.
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Play soccer, live simple, die happy.

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#458666 - 01/10/12 08:07 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
of course a student loan can not be considered part of a full ride however academic or hardship money can. (are there any kids who qualify for no academic or hardship money ever given full rides? I think it must be EXTREMELY rare) Pure athletic full rides are about non existant aren't they?
BOTN has been telling this same story for at least the last five years here on the College Board and before our launch. Remember that when you have 25+ players on a roster and a dozen (or so) scholarships, for one person to get a full scholarship on athletics alone means that someone else is getting less than their share - or nothing.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
are there many D1 schools still looking at kids their senior year?
There are quality players that will decide to not follow through on a verbal commitment and therefore come back into the pool for NCAA Division I school consideration. Coaches are always seeking talent for their rosters. However, most (in excess of 90%) Division I athletic money for soccer will have already been allocated before the summer season closes in Junior Year.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I see late sophmroe and Jr year when things are at full tilt. (D1 only again)
The biggest shock that some parents will see in the Division I recruitment wars is that first financial offers will be assigned for top recruits by Christmas time of the Junior Year. Most (in excess of 90%) of Division I money is typically allocated shortly after the Memorial Day Showcases in the Junior Year. So, it does not mean that the Division I well is dry, but the name institutions in the soccer world will have already made their decisions from that recruiting class.


thanks, this supports everything i have experienced or suspected

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#458691 - 01/11/12 07:50 AM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: Westone]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Westone
because a lot of kids who decided to go to school there opted out of he school's program and decided to actually go to college and play a sport on the side.


wow. So girls that play D1 soccer for a college team are not actually going to college?

Why the disdain? Frankly I always felt the opposite, like a girl playing D1 is working her way through college (which I find more admiable than a kid that is there to party on dad's dime).

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#458701 - 01/11/12 09:57 AM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Westone Offline
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I was simply pointing out the fact that students should think carefully about the D1 college experiance because playing a D1 sport is very time consuming and results in a 'unique' college experiance and is one that is different than other kids attending the college and not playing a D1 sport. For some, the D1 experiance does indeed provide a very important disciplined backdrop that may indeed be necessary; but that is child dependent.

Many athletes that opt to go to a mid-tier D1 school opt out by their junior year for any number of reasons and decide instead to focus instead of having a broader college experiance from a social perspective. College club ball is played in a more relaxed and less competitive atmosphere and without nutty coaches and playing time issues.

I think too many folks seem to focus on the end all of scholorship money as opposed to considering the bigger picture of what one wants from their four years away from home. At the end of day, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my view remains the best academic college experiance is found in D3 where there is more of a balance. This obviously assumes your kid goes to classes and does not spend 4 years partying their time away. Which, as an fyi, is petty impossible to do in the NESCAC schools due to their size and student body. On the other hand in large D1 schools it happens all to frequently.

With that said, I once again bid adios to the Board, subject to be risen from the grave by Boardlord.
_________________________
WESTONE
Play soccer, live simple, die happy.

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#458708 - 01/11/12 10:44 AM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: Westone]
BU12Coach Offline
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Sorry you bid goodbye WestOne before I got the chance to thank you for your insight. It was very helpful to me.

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#458742 - 01/11/12 03:12 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: Westone]
BoardLord Offline
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Posts: 2642
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Westone
With that said, I once again bid adios to the Board, subject to be risen from the grave by Boardlord.
Westone, thank you for heeding the call to duty! As always, your insights and experiences as a parent with close ties to excellent academics and balanced athletics are appreciated.

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#459203 - 01/18/12 10:05 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Boardlord,

Should any weight be given to the term "immediate impact" player or is this a term thrown about loosely by Coaches? What does it really mean, if anything?

Thanks in advance.

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#459446 - 01/20/12 11:10 PM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: Anonymous]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2642
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Boardlord,

Should any weight be given to the term "immediate impact" player or is this a term thrown about loosely by Coaches? What does it really mean, if anything?

Thanks in advance.
BOTN is not sure that the "immediate impact" term actually has much meaning aside from your securing a larger stipend from the college coach to underwrite your student-athlete's funding. There are plenty of examples on the nightly sports report of can't-miss prospects who are overtaken by lesser names. Therefore, remember that college is first and foremost about earning the degree; the athletics are secondary and a chance to underwrite the bill while "working" your way through school. Hopefully, these words help. If you have a more detailed question, please feel free to ask.

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#459482 - 01/21/12 10:27 AM Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012 [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks BL, this was a term my daughter has seen in inquiries received from colleges (D1) after a tournament. It usually goes something like this..."We believe you can have an immediate impact on our program and we urge you to come visit..." I suspect they would never say, you could possibly see some game time... We are definitely keeping academics first, but as a parent I just want to be able to understand the language if there is indeed any common usage for these terms.

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