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#486630 - 08/07/12 06:46 PM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: LIRef77]
Dave Birnbaum Offline
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OK, OK, OK -- we follow, we understand what might have been in the referee's mind, BUT -- what would LIRef77 have called if he/she were the game's referee?

First, had you not had the benefit of the video, would you have imposed the 6 second rule (wasn't there a time when a keeper also could take more than 7 steps with the ball?), awarded the free kick, awarded a second free keep for possible encroachment, and then the PK call and second, what about all of the above after watching the video?

Everyone on this thread wants to know how you would have made, or not made, the calls.

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#486634 - 08/07/12 07:17 PM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: Dave Birnbaum]
LIRef77 Offline
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you want to know how I'd call it in a youth game? So you could add me to the list of referees you disagree with? OK.
Yes I would have called the handling. Players are always saying that they are trying to protect themselves and they may be doing that but when you turn your arm towards a ball and your arm is out and away from your body it is handling. Did the ball play the arm or vice versa? It's a tough call to make in any game but you have to call it like you see it., especially when you are in a perfect position to see it. I would have also called handling against Rapinoe because she gained an advantage and the ball went right to her feet after it grazed the arm so in that case the arm played the ball and the ball went to her feet. Don't know what the referee was thinking there but sometimes you make split second decisions that you cannot take back later.
In a youth game I would have called the six second rule especially since I would have warned the keeper beforehand if she was holding on to the ball for 10 seconds every time. Same goes for the 10 yards for a free kick if's it trifling I would let it go but I would remind the player about it and if it kept happening then a yellow card for persistent infringement.
And since we're speaking about it you would be amazed at how many coaches and trainers teach players to obnoxiously stand right in front of the ball during a free kick which keeps the team from doing a quick kick. This needs to be addressed immediately by the referee to keep the game flowing and after a warning the next time a player should be cautioned and shown a yellow.

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#486639 - 08/07/12 08:29 PM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: LIRef77]
Dave Birnbaum Offline
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I don't have a list of referees with whom I disagree, but sometimes they do make bad calls that can affect the outcome of a match.

You would have called the handling, I wouldn't have made that call, but I would have issued a yellow card for encroaching and then allowed the U.S. to take again the free kick.

I've had my nose broken twice in games, probably because I wasn't quick enough to protect my face from oncoming balls in very close proximity.

The Canadian player was probably only 5 yards away when the ball struck her arm (or, as you and the referee would presumably say, her arm struck the ball -- the two of you need to make that confirmation in order to justify the intentional handling of the ball -- otherwise there should have not been a call. She seemed to have turned her body away from the ball so she wouldn't get hit in the face or chest. Understandable, even in the penalty area.

Yes, it was a very difficult call to make, maybe from a tough angle for the referee to have seen what really happened, but in the end, the referee must have seen, or thought she had seen, an intentional ball handling. I don't criticize her, I just saw if differently, and that was from my advantage of seeing the video replay several times.

I still say the encroachment was totally clear and in sight of this referee and that's the call she should have made. The encroachment came before the handling, therefore no PK.

As for the six second call, I can only say this referee had a lot of guts to make such a call. Controversial indeed because its rarely ever called, and because the Canadian keeper held the ball other times even longer with no call, albeit she was warned at halftime.

I do think the Canadian keeper was making tactical mistakes in any event holding the ball so long so many times.

She could really punt long and with the Americans on the attack and only three U.S. defenders, I would have launched my punts right away to counterattack.

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#486662 - 08/08/12 12:03 AM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: Dave Birnbaum]
Anonymous
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- Canada Player turned away, jumping, sticking the elbow out. The jump and turn, esp at this level, was the "act": trickery if you will. The elbow out made her "bigger". At this level, right call.
- US player, arm is in natural position and in slow motion you see, she even moves it back and away along the side of the body, not making herself bigger. At any level, right call.
- "6 sec call"; tough call to make. Its why shes a fifa ref and we're not. Made because it destroys the game and leads to my next point.
- I think the crew did an excellent job. Made for a very exciting game because all the players wanted it that way, the crowd wanted it that way and the refs let it happen that way.

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#486664 - 08/08/12 12:54 AM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
- Canada Player turned away, jumping, sticking the elbow out. The jump and turn, esp at this level, was the "act": trickery if you will. The elbow out made her "bigger". At this level, right call.
- US player, arm is in natural position and in slow motion you see, she even moves it back and away along the side of the body, not making herself bigger. At any level, right call.
- "6 sec call"; tough call to make. Its why shes a fifa ref and we're not. Made because it destroys the game and leads to my next point.
- I think the crew did an excellent job. Made for a very exciting game because all the players wanted it that way, the crowd wanted it that way and the refs let it happen that way.


Well said and I agree 100%

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#486671 - 08/08/12 08:13 AM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
- Canada Player turned away, jumping, sticking the elbow out. The jump and turn, esp at this level, was the "act": trickery if you will. The elbow out made her "bigger". At this level, right call.
- US player, arm is in natural position and in slow motion you see, she even moves it back and away along the side of the body, not making herself bigger. At any level, right call.
- "6 sec call"; tough call to make. Its why shes a fifa ref and we're not. Made because it destroys the game and leads to my next point.
- I think the crew did an excellent job. Made for a very exciting game because all the players wanted it that way, the crowd wanted it that way and the refs let it happen that way.


Well said and I agree 100%


Good post, but i am still struggling with the 6 seconds, and the non call for encroachment BEFORE the hand ball. DID ANYONE FIND A GOOD LINK WHERE THE REF SAID THE DELAYING THE RE-START WAS SPOKEN ABOUT AT HALFTIME?? Everyone keeps saying she was warmed. I do know that Abby puts er fingers up couunting to 6 in most every game

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#486702 - 08/08/12 11:28 AM Re: U.S. vs Japan for the Gold in Women's Soccer [Re: Anonymous]
LIRef77 Offline
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When I said you could add me to the list Dave, I said that "tounge in cheek", I don't expect people to always agree with me, if I needed that I would not be a referee. Also if I can't take the heat here, I do not belong on the pitch where it can become a lot hotter! Good thread!

Any prediction for the final Dave?

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