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#477194 - 05/23/12 09:41 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Actually when it comes to the younger players we do help them learn and understand the game. If it's on a small sided field you use signals and verbalize what the rstart is. If it's an illegal throw-in we are encouraged to let them try it again. If anything referees are more in tune with young players than many parents and coaches are since they may not yet fully understand the game. You would be amazed how fast young players learn the game. MOST players know and understand when you call a foul against them. I know with young players I will use the hand signal and simultaneously call it out loud as in "that's a goal kick" or point to the corner while saying out loud "corner kick". After that happens a few times in a game they get it and I no longer need to verbalize what the restart is. Referees always have to take in to account the age of the players in a match and call the game accordingly. Parents and Coaches underestimate the soccer intelligence of even the youngest players out there. Most are fast learners.


Most refs do but not all (some are a disaster). I don't think parents and coaches underestimate the intelligence of players, I think they feel obligated to smother them, not them play and make decisions for themselves, they are afraid of the consequences if a 10 year old actually makes a mistake when they should realize its ok to make a mistake and now is the time to make them. Kids actually learn from mistakes and the game is the best teacher, not the constant barrage of direction from the sideline.

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#477203 - 05/23/12 10:08 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
LIRef77 Online   content
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 216
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Actually when it comes to the younger players we do help them learn and understand the game. If it's on a small sided field you use signals and verbalize what the rstart is. If it's an illegal throw-in we are encouraged to let them try it again. If anything referees are more in tune with young players than many parents and coaches are since they may not yet fully understand the game. You would be amazed how fast young players learn the game. MOST players know and understand when you call a foul against them. I know with young players I will use the hand signal and simultaneously call it out loud as in "that's a goal kick" or point to the corner while saying out loud "corner kick". After that happens a few times in a game they get it and I no longer need to verbalize what the restart is. Referees always have to take in to account the age of the players in a match and call the game accordingly. Parents and Coaches underestimate the soccer intelligence of even the youngest players out there. Most are fast learners.


Most refs do but not all (some are a disaster). I don't think parents and coaches underestimate the intelligence of players, I think they feel obligated to smother them, not them play and make decisions for themselves, they are afraid of the consequences if a 10 year old actually makes a mistake when they should realize its ok to make a mistake and now is the time to make them. Kids actually learn from mistakes and the game is the best teacher, not the constant barrage of direction from the sideline.


If you feel that the parents do not let them make mistakes or feel that they cannot make decisions for themselves than you are indeed agreeing with me that the adults underestimate the players soccer intelligence. I am constantly amazed by the athletic and cognitive talent displayed by the youngest of players on the pitch. You will also be amazed at how many players make comments and ignore what some insane adult is screaming at them to do. Many are there just to play and if you asked them the score (in a close game) most are not even aware of it.

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#477266 - 05/23/12 01:00 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
The referees have poor sportmanship?? The referee is there to call the game not to be a sporting fellow. If you have a problem with how the game is being called then step up and become a referee. To accuse the referee of poor sportmanship is just silly. Just because you don't like the calls doesn't meen he's displaying poor sportmanship. He is not a competitor. But it look real easy from the touchline. It's not. Referees make mistakes just like Coaches and players. Referees put up with an unbelievable amount of nonsense and inappropriate behavior. Referee assaults have increased dramatically this season. No referee deserves to be touched for calling a less than perfect youth game. This thread is about Sportmanship, not referees. Poor officiating is never an excuse for behaving inappropriately.


Well, most of the refs I have gotten have been ladies or gentlemen, offering a smile and a handshake before the game and speaking to the players and their AR’s with respect, even some humor. There will always be a few that do not, but that is what the evals are for – to point them out.

But a ref needs to only communicate with a hand signal or the whistle and nothing more. If you expect a description or discussion every time you don’t know what happened, you need to realize you are not entitled to one. All the ref has to do is point direction and that will tell you what kind of kick it is or who has the throw. When a coach starts to yell at a ref for an explanation of a call, that’s when you may get that attitude because you don’t know you are not supposed to get one.

Who said this had anything to do with not liking how the game is called. Making mistakes is expected and has nothing to do with sportsmanship. I'm talking about the refs that communicate poorly, have an attitude if spoken to and bully young players and/or their own AR's, which I have seen.




At younger age groups I think it should be more than a whistle and pointing a hand, especially when there is apparent confusion.


Don’t agree. If a ref points towards your goal after a whistle with their hand level to the ground, that’s a direct kick for the other team and you are on defense. If the hand points towards your goal first and then the ref raises it up over their head, then that’s a indirect kick for the other team. It really doesn’t matter if the foul was a trip or a kick, a push or a hold, its still a direct kick. There is no need for any explanation. Refs point to the corner for a corner kick, the goal for a goal kick, and point direction for a throw in. That’s why they use the signals.

But I do know refs will talk to the players real fast, while we at the sidelines don’t even see it, telling them what they did. “You tripped him” or “that was a push” is all the players need. If the game stopped every time for an explanation of what the call was soccer games would become as long as baseball games!


I guess because all 10 year olds know all the signals. I've seen games where a ref calls a foul, the kids are confused on what was called, the wrong team takes the free kick and he shrugs his shoulders and let's them play on.


Young players actually learn quite quickly and as another pointed out, the ref will generally tell them “white ball” or “blue’s throw in. The problem is that the parents and so-called coaches do not know what they should know – the signals – and then start yelling “what’s the call”. Instead of learning what they should know to help the young players, they leave that to the one person who should be the last on the list for training their players – the ref.

Learning to look at which way the ref is pointing to tell you if you are on attack or defense is EASY, even for a 9 year old. Maybe coaches should start teaching them this instead of having the kids dribble around cones for an hour………..

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#477497 - 05/24/12 12:29 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Actually when it comes to the younger players we do help them learn and understand the game. If it's on a small sided field you use signals and verbalize what the rstart is. If it's an illegal throw-in we are encouraged to let them try it again. If anything referees are more in tune with young players than many parents and coaches are since they may not yet fully understand the game. You would be amazed how fast young players learn the game. MOST players know and understand when you call a foul against them. I know with young players I will use the hand signal and simultaneously call it out loud as in "that's a goal kick" or point to the corner while saying out loud "corner kick". After that happens a few times in a game they get it and I no longer need to verbalize what the restart is. Referees always have to take in to account the age of the players in a match and call the game accordingly. Parents and Coaches underestimate the soccer intelligence of even the youngest players out there. Most are fast learners.


Most refs do but not all (some are a disaster). I don't think parents and coaches underestimate the intelligence of players, I think they feel obligated to smother them, not them play and make decisions for themselves, they are afraid of the consequences if a 10 year old actually makes a mistake when they should realize its ok to make a mistake and now is the time to make them. Kids actually learn from mistakes and the game is the best teacher, not the constant barrage of direction from the sideline.


If you feel that the parents do not let them make mistakes or feel that they cannot make decisions for themselves than you are indeed agreeing with me that the adults underestimate the players soccer intelligence. I am constantly amazed by the athletic and cognitive talent displayed by the youngest of players on the pitch. You will also be amazed at how many players make comments and ignore what some insane adult is screaming at them to do. Many are there just to play and if you asked them the score (in a close game) most are not even aware of it.


I'm not disagreeing, but I don't think they actually underestimate their intelligence. I don't think that they consider that. They are fearful of the consequences of their child making a mistake. It's not just soccer, a great percentage of parents these days do their kids homework with them because they don't want something turned in with a wrong answer. It's shocking to me how smothered this generation is growing up.

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#477507 - 05/24/12 01:29 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's commonly referred to as "helicopter parenting" where the parents are always "hovering" over their children, fearful that they will make a mistake and fail. What they don't realize is that mommy and daddy can't be there all the time and children need to learn things on their own.

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#496382 - 10/22/12 11:27 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is there a certain time period referees need to abide by to put in the sportsmanship points? I know as coaches, we are told the scores must be put in by the end of the day. Yet here we are getting ready for Week 7 of the fall season and all I see are 2 games entered for my team. Just for arguments sake, let's say it was the first 2 weeks which I know it isn't, that means there is a gap of 5+ weeks including an off week for Columbus weekend.

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#496442 - 10/22/12 02:36 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: weanie]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: weanie
I was just wondering how the sportsmanshp ratings are figured out. Is it the refs that vote?


my experience is the higher you rate the refs, the higher your Sportsmanship award. Give all high marks to refs, win sportsmanship. For all I know they take the numerical scores you assign to refs and simply award Sportsmanship that way.

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#496512 - 10/22/12 06:24 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Is there a certain time period referees need to abide by to put in the sportsmanship points? I know as coaches, we are told the scores must be put in by the end of the day. Yet here we are getting ready for Week 7 of the fall season and all I see are 2 games entered for my team. Just for arguments sake, let's say it was the first 2 weeks which I know it isn't, that means there is a gap of 5+ weeks including an off week for Columbus weekend.

If you don't see scores after 7 weeks, you will not seem them until the end of the season where the system will then average out the scores that are actually entered. The referees are supposed to enter them manually within a few days but many don't bother.

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#496517 - 10/22/12 07:24 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
LIRef77 Online   content
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 216
You guys are all wrong. To address the original question:the referee is expected to enter the sportsmanhip points the same day they do their game report. Their game report should be in the mail by Monday. If sportsmanship scores are missing for weeks than either the referees have not entered the scores or the system has not been recording them. There have been problems with the system. I have had no problem entering the scores every week.

Now, as far as the ratings the coaches give the referees, I never see mine and they have absolutely no correlation to the sportmanship scores. You can now see the sportsmanship scores as they accumulate every week. When I enter the scores I see them addded in. In my opinion it gives the team immediate feedback. For example during POW if everybody on your team continued to coach and yell instructions from the parents and the coaches you should expect to score very low. Whether you agree with the system or not it's in place so I take it seriously and score accordingly. Therefore I have to be fair and score consistently from week to week.

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