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#461282 - 02/04/12 08:22 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


75 pct of the refs in LIJ are to old, slow and only care about the money they make and how they are in control and want everyone to know it. They work the circle and that's about it. I guess if you act like this you were picked on much of your life. It should be about the kids and not the ref.

With respect to the other 25% are decent and know the game and hustle. Sucks they are all put in to one category. Like in life people need to get fired if they can't do a job. But this will never happen. Once you are in you are in for life.

I have filled out over 20 ref evaluations asking for someone to get back to me and not ONCE did they. No one cares they just want to get paid.

All of them need to take a real fitness test and the older ones need to retire already. LIJ should send out people to watch the refs not just the ones at soccer park. Hire younger players out of college and pay them a little more. People are looking for jobs!

The Sportsmanship award should not even be around with the types that are filling out these forms. It's a total crap shoot and no one respects it for these reasons. One season you win it, the next your in last. Coaches and players get multiple yellow and red cards and still finish up top. SAD SAD system and administration.

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#461283 - 02/04/12 09:11 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
LIRef77 Offline
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 718
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.

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#461288 - 02/04/12 10:17 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.


Don't be sensitive. In all sports there are poor referees. Good referees go unnoticed and the game flows well. I agree 75% is out of line. In the past few seasons we have about 2 of the 9 games that the referee is a problem, most of the time just a poor attitude, interacts with players, parents and coaches, too much desire to let everyone know he is the referee. They just smother the game and honestly the game could have been played better without them.

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#461289 - 02/04/12 10:18 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77]
Smitty_3 Offline
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Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 16
OK, I'll bite, when & where is the next class and how much does a ref make for different types of game. What are the start-up costs?

Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.

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#461297 - 02/05/12 08:50 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.


Don't be sensitive. In all sports there are poor referees. Good referees go unnoticed and the game flows well. I agree 75% is out of line. In the past few seasons we have about 2 of the 9 games that the referee is a problem, most of the time just a poor attitude, interacts with players, parents and coaches, too much desire to let everyone know he is the referee. They just smother the game and honestly the game could have been played better without them.


Sensitive? Referees are not allowed to be sensitive with all they have to deal with on the pitch. I'm glad you guys don't do political polling because your math makes no sense. Both guys agree that 75% of all referees are bad yet you have no proof. For you to knw would mean that you would have seen a representative sample, which you did not, and would be able to make a definitive result. Unfortunately you are biased and cannot be objective about it. Are there bad referees out there? Yes. Is it 75%? I don't agree. Then the last poster proves my point by repeating that percentage to then say that in the past few seasons, you say that 2 out of 9 referees were a problem. Your own observation makes your math suspect. If we go by your latest observation, then 22% of the referees are doing a bad job which means 78% are doing a GOOD job. You guys love to just throw numbers out there that are meaningless and make no sense. Your point is to lambast the majority of referees and until you come up with a scientific survey with a representative sample (remember statistics in college?) your numbers are wrong. From a statistical standpoint even if you felt that ALL of the referees that you saw were bad, you may not have seen enough of a representative sample to make an accurate "guess". The other problem with the numbers that you cite is that as a spectator or coach you have a bias and are not qualified to make a judgement. Most critics in this category rate the referee based on wins and loses.

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#461299 - 02/05/12 09:37 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anyguy Offline
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Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 764
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.


Don't be sensitive. In all sports there are poor referees. Good referees go unnoticed and the game flows well. I agree 75% is out of line. In the past few seasons we have about 2 of the 9 games that the referee is a problem, most of the time just a poor attitude, interacts with players, parents and coaches, too much desire to let everyone know he is the referee. They just smother the game and honestly the game could have been played better without them.


Sensitive? Referees are not allowed to be sensitive with all they have to deal with on the pitch. I'm glad you guys don't do political polling because your math makes no sense. Both guys agree that 75% of all referees are bad yet you have no proof. For you to knw would mean that you would have seen a representative sample, which you did not, and would be able to make a definitive result. Unfortunately you are biased and cannot be objective about it. Are there bad referees out there? Yes. Is it 75%? I don't agree. Then the last poster proves my point by repeating that percentage to then say that in the past few seasons, you say that 2 out of 9 referees were a problem. Your own observation makes your math suspect. If we go by your latest observation, then 22% of the referees are doing a bad job which means 78% are doing a GOOD job. You guys love to just throw numbers out there that are meaningless and make no sense. Your point is to lambast the majority of referees and until you come up with a scientific survey with a representative sample (remember statistics in college?) your numbers are wrong. From a statistical standpoint even if you felt that ALL of the referees that you saw were bad, you may not have seen enough of a representative sample to make an accurate "guess". The other problem with the numbers that you cite is that as a spectator or coach you have a bias and are not qualified to make a judgement. Most critics in this category rate the referee based on wins and loses.


The percentage of 'bad' referees is no different than the percentage of 'bad' lawyers, 'bad' accountants, 'bad' teachers, etc. In every group there are always those that do not work as hard, are insensitive, rude, whatever.

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#461302 - 02/05/12 10:07 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anyguy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We had an insensitive Ref at our last game!


grin


I think some Refs would consider that a compliment, based on other words I have heard them called!

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#461304 - 02/05/12 10:26 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Smitty_3]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Smitty_3
OK, I'll bite, when & where is the next class and how much does a ref make for different types of game. What are the start-up costs?
I think it's ...
Center ref $34 to $78 depending on league and age. AR is $25 to $39.
You pay all expenses. Car, gas, tolls, uniform, pubilcations(opt), dues(somewhat opt), food, water, postage, stationary, annual testing for grade retention or upgrade. Though it is a tax deduction; business expense.

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#461305 - 02/05/12 10:36 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Smitty_3]
LIRef77 Offline
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 718
[quote=Smitty_3]OK, I'll bite, when & where is the next class and how much does a ref make for different types of game. What are the start-up costs?

Wow Smitty 3 you are part of the solution! . The next class starts on February 14th. It looks like there is still room in the class. The class costs $125 and usually includes a referee starter kit with some of the equipment you need to begin. Every year at the LIJSL Convention LISRA has referee representatives recruiting new referees. As far as how much you'll make, you'll make enough money to easily invest in uniform items and get the $125 back.

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#461306 - 02/05/12 10:37 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think some of these ref's deserve better. I mean these so called premier teams that can't trap a ball or keep it on the green must kill a ref from his standpoint.

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#461318 - 02/05/12 05:15 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
Your claim that 75% of the referees are too old is flawed and incorrect. Many new referees have been trained in the last 4 years that I know of. Even if you attended games for the last 10 years at most you would have seen 100-200 games. You have not seen half of the referees that are out there. Many young referees don't want to deal with the adults and would rather be ARs. If you think we're too old and unfit, by all means sign up for the next class! Looks easy but it's not.


Don't be sensitive. In all sports there are poor referees. Good referees go unnoticed and the game flows well. I agree 75% is out of line. In the past few seasons we have about 2 of the 9 games that the referee is a problem, most of the time just a poor attitude, interacts with players, parents and coaches, too much desire to let everyone know he is the referee. They just smother the game and honestly the game could have been played better without them.


Sensitive? Referees are not allowed to be sensitive with all they have to deal with on the pitch. I'm glad you guys don't do political polling because your math makes no sense. Both guys agree that 75% of all referees are bad yet you have no proof. For you to knw would mean that you would have seen a representative sample, which you did not, and would be able to make a definitive result. Unfortunately you are biased and cannot be objective about it. Are there bad referees out there? Yes. Is it 75%? I don't agree. Then the last poster proves my point by repeating that percentage to then say that in the past few seasons, you say that 2 out of 9 referees were a problem. Your own observation makes your math suspect. If we go by your latest observation, then 22% of the referees are doing a bad job which means 78% are doing a GOOD job. You guys love to just throw numbers out there that are meaningless and make no sense. Your point is to lambast the majority of referees and until you come up with a scientific survey with a representative sample (remember statistics in college?) your numbers are wrong. From a statistical standpoint even if you felt that ALL of the referees that you saw were bad, you may not have seen enough of a representative sample to make an accurate "guess". The other problem with the numbers that you cite is that as a spectator or coach you have a bias and are not qualified to make a judgement. Most critics in this category rate the referee based on wins and loses.


I said I agreed 75% was out of line, then went on to say I think its more like 2 of 9 or 22%.

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#461343 - 02/06/12 10:16 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Larry, when the LI cup brackets are going to be ready?

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#461346 - 02/06/12 10:21 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Larry Miller Online   happy
Chief Rocker
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 24598
Loc: Greenwich Village
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Larry, when the LI cup brackets are going to be ready?


They are ready, but not released. Why? It's the LIJSL. Do they need a reason? It is this non-communication on their part which one of many reasons why the league is in decline and teams and clubs are grabbing at every non-LIJSL program they can get into. The Executive Bunch doesn't get it.

Look for some very candid and sharply worded Opinion Pieces in the coming weeks from BOTN with regards to the LIJSL.

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#461376 - 02/06/12 02:38 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just wanted to throw my two cents in. I'm a 5 sport High School Official, i'm not perfect, I don't make all the right calls. It's human nature, we make mistakes! As I tell the players in my pre-game meeting, you won't make all your shots, your coach won't call all the right plays, and I won't make all the right calls! But I promise I won't yell at you when you make a mistake! As an official you have to make a call a split second after the play occured. We don't have time to think about it, review it. I try and not be friendly with parents because it could give the other team the impression that I favor that team. So we have a job to do, WE DON'T CARE WHO WINS OR LOSES!!! We just want a good, clean, close game! As I told another official the other night doing a girls basketball game, this player made a basket, she probably doesn't score a lot because she had the biggest smile on her face, she looked into the stands to see her parents jumping for joy! I told that official I wish I could have taken that picture and show all the parents before each game, that this is what it's all about, your children! Your children having a great time, smiling and playing. Compared to other countries in which they rather teach violence!

So in closing please respect officials, because it's not an easy job, we are not perfect! We don't go into your work place and tell you your paper clips are not in the right spot, your pencils are sharpened the right way, your just standing around doing nothing!

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#461379 - 02/06/12 03:04 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well said!

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