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#460985 - 02/02/12 12:32 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
dont overthink it....you will never figure it out.

Teams will come in first one season by a mile and then come in last the next season. No rhyme or reason


I've never seen that, you overexaggerate. I think it is fairly reflectice of the top team and the bottom teams. The middle group could be a bit subjective. If you behave well all year it will show, if you continually dont
do well it also shows.


I've had it happen to me the past 2 seasons. 2 seasons ago we finished dead last and that includes 3 games where we played down because the other team didn't have enough players. Never ran up the score. This year we finished second and that includes a game where I pulled my team off with 10 minutes left because the ref let the game get out of control of which I informed him of such as i tended to my 5th injured player. Same players, same coaches, same parents. Unfortunately it's a crock.

So in your view, the game got out of control and you "informed" the ref. Really, no dissent there. And the parents, I'm sure they were quiet about it. For the record, parents cannot dispute any calls, make comments to the ref, or address them in any way. I'm sure none of that happened either. Those who do not get it probably never will, what a shame.


So share it with the world. what is the break down of scorring... players are what %, parents % coaches % ? If there's a rubric... it should be public. Why not put it on BOTN?

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#460991 - 02/02/12 01:00 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
LIRef77 Offline
Back of THE NET
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 227
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
dont overthink it....you will never figure it out.

Teams will come in first one season by a mile and then come in last the next season. No rhyme or reason


I've never seen that, you overexaggerate. I think it is fairly reflectice of the top team and the bottom teams. The middle group could be a bit subjective. If you behave well all year it will show, if you continually dont
do well it also shows.






I've had it happen to me the past 2 seasons. 2 seasons ago we finished dead last and that includes 3 games where we played down because the other team didn't have enough players. Never ran up the score. This year we finished second and that includes a game where I pulled my team off with 10 minutes left because the ref let the game get out of control of which I informed him of such as i tended to my 5th injured player. Same players, same coaches, same parents. Unfortunately it's a crock.

So in your view, the game got out of control and you "informed" the ref. Really, no dissent there. And the parents, I'm sure they were quiet about it. For the record, parents cannot dispute any calls, make comments to the ref, or address them in any way. I'm sure none of that happened either. Those who do not get it probably never will, what a shame.


So share it with the world. what is the break down of scorring... players are what %, parents % coaches % ? If there's a rubric... it should be public. Why not put it on BOTN?


The roster/sportsmanship form is downloadable from the LIJSL site under forms and documents.
Cooperation of Coaches,players and fans is scored 1-10, overall game conduct 1-10, player appearance is 1-5, which includes jerseys tucked in as specified in the LIJSL RULES. A perfect score is 45. Even if the Coach did not receive a yellow card for his parents or coaches he can score very low which can immediately knock that team out of the running. Everybody wants to get a top score because they played down or showed fair play by allowing the other team to have a dropped ball. But if a player, coach,trainer or parent misbehaves the team again takes the big hit and probably gets knocked out of the running. If more than one of these groups violates the zero tolerance policy then I think you get the point. Coaches, players and parents can develop a case of amnesia by forgetting about all the inappropriate behavior displayed around soccer fields. It's in the minority but it's there. Also noted on the bottom of the form is a 5 point penalty for improperly filling out the form by the Coach. In spite of this you need to have the talent of a CIA cryptologist in order to decipher what some coaches hand in for their forms. A U9 player could do a better job! Those are the rules, I don't make them but as a former coach and current referee I take the scoring seriously.

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#461021 - 02/02/12 03:56 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with the fact that it is a big crock. My childs team has one the sportsmanship several times, and also been ranked near the bottom several times. Same coaches, same players, and same parents. The only differing factor was the wonderful LIJSL refs. wink

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#461045 - 02/02/12 05:59 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: LIRef77]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2412
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
... Cooperation of Coaches,players and fans is scored 1-10, overall game conduct 1-10, player appearance is 1-5, which includes jerseys tucked in as specified in the LIJSL RULES. A perfect score is 45. ....
Let me share with all of our BOTN Readers when I truly realized that the sportsmanship awards were meaningless. A very close associate and senior LIJSL referee was talking to me at a tournament about the sportsmanship scoring. He proudly announced that he never scored a team above an 8 in any 10 point category since there was always room for improvement.

The result is that a team having this referee could never score above a 37 in any game with this individual at the center. Now, take a look at the chevron breakpoints in a nine game season where 405 points is the maximum award. You will quickly see that my friend's modified scoring system can end a team's chevron pursuit.

Ask for the scoring rubric that accompanies the grid - see the variety of answers that you get. Once you realize the variety of scoring systems, you quickly come to grips with the meaningless nature of the annual sportsmanship scoring.

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#461049 - 02/02/12 06:09 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
... Cooperation of Coaches,players and fans is scored 1-10, overall game conduct 1-10, player appearance is 1-5, which includes jerseys tucked in as specified in the LIJSL RULES. A perfect score is 45. ....
Let me share with all of our BOTN Readers when I truly realized that the sportsmanship awards were meaningless. A very close associate and senior LIJSL referee was talking to me at a tournament about the sportsmanship scoring. He proudly announced that he never scored a team above an 8 in any 10 point category since there was always room for improvement.

The result is that a team having this referee could never score above a 37 in any game with this individual at the center. Now, take a look at the chevron breakpoints in a nine game season where 405 points is the maximum award. You will quickly see that my friend's modified scoring system can end a team's chevron pursuit.

Ask for the scoring rubric that accompanies the grid - see the variety of answers that you get. Once you realize the variety of scoring systems, you quickly come to grips with the meaningless nature of the annual sportsmanship scoring.
There is an additional problem also. The parents could be perfect, the players could be perfect and the coach gets on the referee's nerves, the Referee then does not, lets say, give the Coaches cooperation as a zero, he zero's the players and parents as well because they can't take their emotions out of it and score them individually as the criteria requires. (any combo would apply also, coaches are great, parents are not etc etc you get the point)

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#461050 - 02/02/12 06:18 PM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
dont overthink it....you will never figure it out.

Teams will come in first one season by a mile and then come in last the next season. No rhyme or reason


I've never seen that, you overexaggerate. I think it is fairly reflectice of the top team and the bottom teams. The middle group could be a bit subjective. If you behave well all year it will show, if you continually dont
do well it also shows.


I've had it happen to me the past 2 seasons. 2 seasons ago we finished dead last and that includes 3 games where we played down because the other team didn't have enough players. Never ran up the score. This year we finished second and that includes a game where I pulled my team off with 10 minutes left because the ref let the game get out of control of which I informed him of such as i tended to my 5th injured player. Same players, same coaches, same parents. Unfortunately it's a crock.

So in your view, the game got out of control and you "informed" the ref. Really, no dissent there. And the parents, I'm sure they were quiet about it. For the record, parents cannot dispute any calls, make comments to the ref, or address them in any way. I'm sure none of that happened either. Those who do not get it probably never will, what a shame.
The last post in this sequence has to be by a newbie...lol...First you complete mistook what the other poster wrote second you don't have a clue. This guy is telling the truth. I've been coaching in LIJSL for 11 years total and a minimum of 2 travel teams each season. Same exact stuff happens. 1 team will come in 1st this year the other last, following spring they flip where the one that was first is now last and the one that was last comes in 1st. ONLY variable is the referee's. NOT to mention the fact of the referee losing his copy of the roster so it never gets turned in anyway, or the games the referee doesnt show...System has good intent but seriously seriously flawed

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#461094 - 02/03/12 07:39 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller]
CoachRR Offline
Back of THE NET

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 1
Hello Larry or anyone out there that has a level head on their shoulders (not some out of control parent who can't comment without losing their composure) (and I've seen quite a bit of that on this commenting site). I'm new to this site and I was looking up the Sportsmanship Standings to see where my team was. We were recognized as receiving such a prestegious award ,(at least that's what I'm telling my 10 year old players) smile I wouldn't want them to read the comments of most of the parent/coaches who have commented here. I teach them to play/dress/& act like a professional at all times on and off the field & you will be recongized like one. So, question I have is: Where do we find the Standings? not the whinning of sore losers cry

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#461095 - 02/03/12 07:49 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: Larry Miller]
Larry Miller Offline
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 19898
Loc: Greenwich Village
All of the "standings" are linked in the first post of this thread and in the left side LIJSL SCORES & STANDINGS content island

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#461096 - 02/03/12 07:50 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: LIRef77
... Cooperation of Coaches,players and fans is scored 1-10, overall game conduct 1-10, player appearance is 1-5, which includes jerseys tucked in as specified in the LIJSL RULES. A perfect score is 45. ....
Let me share with all of our BOTN Readers when I truly realized that the sportsmanship awards were meaningless. A very close associate and senior LIJSL referee was talking to me at a tournament about the sportsmanship scoring. He proudly announced that he never scored a team above an 8 in any 10 point category since there was always room for improvement.

The result is that a team having this referee could never score above a 37 in any game with this individual at the center. Now, take a look at the chevron breakpoints in a nine game season where 405 points is the maximum award. You will quickly see that my friend's modified scoring system can end a team's chevron pursuit.

Ask for the scoring rubric that accompanies the grid - see the variety of answers that you get. Once you realize the variety of scoring systems, you quickly come to grips with the meaningless nature of the annual sportsmanship scoring.


It may be meaningless to you but when your team gets a patch it sure means something to the winners! Yes there are flaws in the system, but that's the way it is. Maybe it's a scheduling issue but I always thought it took too long to name the winners. Just because some people object to who gets the award this doesn't mean that it's time to scrap it. There have been suggestions that the referees are doing a poor job of rating teams. What other objective arbiter is there available to do this? The referee is still the best candidate to rate the teams! If you relied on Coaches it would be very subjective and unfair. Just because you know ONE referee that told you how he scores does not make the award unfair. If he never gives out a 10 as long as he is consistent that's what matters. It can be similar to the olympic judging where it is known that the "Russian" judge scores athletes higher than the "French" judge on a certain event. If you attend the LIJSL convention and get to watch the awarding of the patches, check the faces on the players! It is very meaningful to THEM! As a former coach and referee I like it when I see a team wearing a patch. It does not affect the way I rate them but it may give me an indicator as to what level of behavior to expect.

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#461098 - 02/03/12 07:55 AM Re: LIJSL Fall Sportsmanship Standings [Re: CoachRR]
LIRef77 Offline
Back of THE NET
****

Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 227
Originally Posted By: CoachRR
Hello Larry or anyone out there that has a level head on their shoulders (not some out of control parent who can't comment without losing their composure) (and I've seen quite a bit of that on this commenting site). I'm new to this site and I was looking up the Sportsmanship Standings to see where my team was. We were recognized as receiving such a prestegious award ,(at least that's what I'm telling my 10 year old players) smile I wouldn't want them to read the comments of most of the parent/coaches who have commented here. I teach them to play/dress/& act like a professional at all times on and off the field & you will be recongized like one. So, question I have is: Where do we find the Standings? not the whinning of sore losers cry


Congratulations to you and your team Coach RR!! Keep up the good work, it's not an easy award to win but it does mean something. Thank you for being a good role model to your players and parents. Don't forget to have your players proudly display their award! Good luck in the Spring!

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