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#454144 - 11/16/11 03:09 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: rhrhrh]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: rhrhrh
Education can wait, I teach college and too often the students fresh out of high school aren't mature enough to do well.

But to have a parent honestly assess their child's future soccer prospects is almost impossible.

I know one NJ U15B player who has played for three of five area DA programs (pre-academy) including Cosmos and RBNY, and says "he left" all of them. Is he a better prospect than another kid who has never played pre-academy?

Once they are 16 or 17, it might be easier to tell, but moving a kid who is under 15 just in order to play soccer is ridiculous. That's banning an easy move like going to a better school system or to the other parent.

We live in the freaking NYC area, it's not like we are completely in the sticks.


Happens in Ice Hockey all the time north of the border.

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#454221 - 11/17/11 12:11 AM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
rhrhrh Offline
Back of THE NET

Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 710
And obviously it happens in England, Holland, Italy, Spain, etc. (and Argentina, Messi going to Spain) for soccer.

There are some interesting stories about Barcelona:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...ssis--free.html

That's the thing that is missing, residential soccer programs in the US where people can send their kids and know that they aren't just putting a burden on relatives. RBNY could do wonders if they set up a deal with a local HS near their Florham Park facility and put in a residential academy. I think Real Salt Lake already has a residential academy but I haven't heard an update on it.

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#454239 - 11/17/11 08:57 AM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: rhrhrh]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wonder if this model is having any success? It reads like what you are talking about RH...
http://www.dallastexans.com/ResidencyProgram.php

I don't know if it an actual residency or just a day program. I'm not sure the load balance is correct, but according to their schedule they put in almost as much soccer as academics. I think La Masia sticks to a full day of academics with 1-1/2 hours of soccer a day!

From the link above:
8:00am – 12:30pm
School

12:30pm – 1:30pm
Lunch

1:30pm – 3:30pm
Training

3:30pm – 4:00pm
Recovery/Snack/Study

4:00pm – 5:30pm
Training



Originally Posted By: rhrhrh


That's the thing that is missing, residential soccer programs in the US where people can send their kids and know that they aren't just putting a burden on relatives. RBNY could do wonders if they set up a deal with a local HS near their Florham Park facility and put in a residential academy. I think Real Salt Lake already has a residential academy but I haven't heard an update on it.

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#454264 - 11/17/11 10:39 AM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: rhrhrh]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: rhrhrh
And obviously it happens in England, Holland, Italy, Spain, etc. (and Argentina, Messi going to Spain) for soccer.

There are some interesting stories about Barcelona:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...ssis--free.html

That's the thing that is missing, residential soccer programs in the US where people can send their kids and know that they aren't just putting a burden on relatives. RBNY could do wonders if they set up a deal with a local HS near their Florham Park facility and put in a residential academy. I think Real Salt Lake already has a residential academy but I haven't heard an update on it.


that would be a good idea if the soccer market in the US is the same that those countries you've mentioned where a player can earn millions of dollars a year when they get signed up. and clubs earns billions in ads and ticket sales, etc. in the the US market, nobody would spend a lot of money on soccer. even the MLS clubs won't see any value in putting up and investing in grassroots soccer program like barcelona's because MLS clubs doesn't earn that much either. putting up something like that with the club footing the cost is plain is wishful thinking. in the US, the youth soccer business is the parents paying money to these clubs and programs in the hope of college scholarship. i don't think parents are even thinking of MLS like you've always pointed out.

keep dreaming, who knows in a 100 years that might happen here in the US.

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#454295 - 11/17/11 12:46 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
rhrhrh Offline
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Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 710
It's not really the MLS clubs as much as big name big money sponsors.

But honestly it is cheaper to have residential academies in Ghana or another not nearly as industrialized nation. There has to be a perceived need to take advantage of the sheer numbers and immigrant communities in the US.

The US MNT coaches continually look at US citizens who grew up in Europe as a significant source of players. Soccer is too fringe in the US, but there are a set of parents who know that and want better soccer training for their kid without leaving the US. I would not be surprised if PDA or MF set up at least a small residential academy, even if they don't require 100% of the team to be residential.

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#454313 - 11/17/11 02:16 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: rhrhrh]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: rhrhrh
It's not really the MLS clubs as much as big name big money sponsors.

But honestly it is cheaper to have residential academies in Ghana or another not nearly as industrialized nation. There has to be a perceived need to take advantage of the sheer numbers and immigrant communities in the US.

The US MNT coaches continually look at US citizens who grew up in Europe as a significant source of players. Soccer is too fringe in the US, but there are a set of parents who know that and want better soccer training for their kid without leaving the US. I would not be surprised if PDA or MF set up at least a small residential academy, even if they don't require 100% of the team to be residential.


the only way soccer can attract big name sponsors is if the game becomes as popular as football or baseball in the US. soccer does not attract that much yet in the US. even MLS at times play on empty seats. TV coverage is not even that big yet so there is no real marketing value to sponsoring such development. even big events like World Cup doesn't attract the number of viewers like the superbowl or the world series. how much worst for the MLS finals.

in african and other third world countries soccer is like a passport to a better life, so kids takes it very seriously and focus on it the whole year round. take for example kids in brazil or argentina, they see soccer as a way earn money. in the US kids see soccer as just something fun to do. their future does not depend on it and their lives is not as hard as these kids so motivation is not really 100 percent there. that means the determination to compete and be the best is not that big. the same with european countries were a player earns millions of euros. unlike the US only 6 players on MLS earns 6 figures and only one is american and his name can't compare to the likes of jeter or brett farve.

lastly, the kids in the US has too many sports to get involved in and a lot of things to be into. their soccer concentration is nothing compared kids in other countries. only a few kids really digs the game and plays all year round. even on the premier level some of them miss games and practices to go to sleepovers and parties. i bet this doesn't happen in other countries. how much more getting kids to live in one place and play soccer fulltime. they'll miss their lives outside soccer.

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#456399 - 12/11/11 09:00 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
rhrhrh Offline
Back of THE NET

Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 710
Oh please, they'll miss "sleepovers and parties"?

Your attitude plus the kernel of truth in it is exactly why my kid can't find a committed team. Half of them are suburban kids that have athletic skills but don't love soccer - it's just a thing to them, and clubs happily accept their money. The other half are like you, they scoff at teammates who aren't immigrants or sons of immigrants, that they can't "truly be passionate about the game".

I remember talking to a PDA parent about how the teammates didn't take things like guest trainers from overseas as a huge benefit of the club. The kids didn't like practicing in the snow. The parents didn't like driving too far. It takes years to weed out the kids who aren't committed or whose parents aren't committed.

Yet the main problem is the fact that the USSF is still married to height and strength even in the youngest age groups. There are a bunch of foreign teams like that (how many short England players can you think of?), but those teams at least have shorter kids in the pipelines even if they don't make the national team.

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#456446 - 12/12/11 12:57 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: rhrhrh]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: rhrhrh
Oh please, they'll miss "sleepovers and parties"?

Your attitude plus the kernel of truth in it is exactly why my kid can't find a committed team. Half of them are suburban kids that have athletic skills but don't love soccer - it's just a thing to them, and clubs happily accept their money. The other half are like you, they scoff at teammates who aren't immigrants or sons of immigrants, that they can't "truly be passionate about the game".

I remember talking to a PDA parent about how the teammates didn't take things like guest trainers from overseas as a huge benefit of the club. The kids didn't like practicing in the snow. The parents didn't like driving too far. It takes years to weed out the kids who aren't committed or whose parents aren't committed.

Yet the main problem is the fact that the USSF is still married to height and strength even in the youngest age groups. There are a bunch of foreign teams like that (how many short England players can you think of?), but those teams at least have shorter kids in the pipelines even if they don't make the national team.


then go to PDA. what you missed your opportunity to play soccer when you were young. that's why you live your soccer dreams on your kid's? what is basically said is that kid's commitment to soccer here is the US is not as serious compared to kids in the third world country. that's because in here soccer is entertainment and there is no money to make out of it after youth soccer, even worst for girls. unlike kids in third world countries soccer is a ticket to a better life.

you're blaming others why your kid can't find a committed team? maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. or maybe your kid is not good enough to play for teams who takes the game very seriously hence the commitment in your team is lower. my kid's commitment to soccer is 100% but we always pointed out that there is a life outside the soccer field and that good grades are more important than soccer. the kid plays NERP, and in the state ODP program. yet still has a life outside the soccer field and into some other things.

sometimes i pity these kids who are pushed by their parents too hard to the point that the game is no longer fun for them. just in the hope that soccer will save them from spending money for college. that is selfish. we're supposedly here to support them and not to push them. maybe you missed that fact.

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#456464 - 12/12/11 02:58 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: rhrhrh
Oh please, they'll miss "sleepovers and parties"?

Your attitude plus the kernel of truth in it is exactly why my kid can't find a committed team. Half of them are suburban kids that have athletic skills but don't love soccer - it's just a thing to them, and clubs happily accept their money. The other half are like you, they scoff at teammates who aren't immigrants or sons of immigrants, that they can't "truly be passionate about the game".

I remember talking to a PDA parent about how the teammates didn't take things like guest trainers from overseas as a huge benefit of the club. The kids didn't like practicing in the snow. The parents didn't like driving too far. It takes years to weed out the kids who aren't committed or whose parents aren't committed.

Yet the main problem is the fact that the USSF is still married to height and strength even in the youngest age groups. There are a bunch of foreign teams like that (how many short England players can you think of?), but those teams at least have shorter kids in the pipelines even if they don't make the national team.


then go to PDA. what you missed your opportunity to play soccer when you were young. that's why you live your soccer dreams on your kid's? what is basically said is that kid's commitment to soccer here is the US is not as serious compared to kids in the third world country. that's because in here soccer is entertainment and there is no money to make out of it after youth soccer, even worst for girls. unlike kids in third world countries soccer is a ticket to a better life.

you're blaming others why your kid can't find a committed team? maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. or maybe your kid is not good enough to play for teams who takes the game very seriously hence the commitment in your team is lower. my kid's commitment to soccer is 100% but we always pointed out that there is a life outside the soccer field and that good grades are more important than soccer. the kid plays NERP, and in the state ODP program. yet still has a life outside the soccer field and into some other things.

sometimes i pity these kids who are pushed by their parents too hard to the point that the game is no longer fun for them. just in the hope that soccer will save them from spending money for college. that is selfish. we're supposedly here to support them and not to push them. maybe you missed that fact.




are you the guy that wants the u17 and u18 kids to get participation awards?
You sure sound like it.

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#456475 - 12/12/11 04:12 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We are straying away from this thread's original intent.

My daughter plays for an ECNL club - which is run by US Club - and will surely be headed in the id2 direction. My dilemma is this....should I put all of her eggs in the US Club basket, or should she be branching out to do ODP as well so she has a hand in US Youth soccer also? From what I have seen talent-wise, she could make the regional team. Is that a worthwhile experience?

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#456478 - 12/12/11 04:38 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
We are straying away from this thread's original intent.

My daughter plays for an ECNL club - which is run by US Club - and will surely be headed in the id2 direction. My dilemma is this....should I put all of her eggs in the US Club basket, or should she be branching out to do ODP as well so she has a hand in US Youth soccer also? From what I have seen talent-wise, she could make the regional team. Is that a worthwhile experience?



lol, yeah put her on the regional team, it's not too competative

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#456513 - 12/12/11 10:50 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
rhrhrh Offline
Back of THE NET

Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 710
If you can get her to the events, and pay for them, why not do as much as she wants to?

If driving more than an hour irks you, or her, then forget the extra commitments.

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#494560 - 10/10/12 10:20 AM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Larry Miller]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Larry, at first I thought you're such a jerk for giving these smarty remarks. However, as I've read further in your posts, you had made some really good points that I can related to. There's a girl on our team whose parents always bragging about "they're so poor, no money, in financial debt" so that they can get some sympathy from the other parents. I was one of those who offered to help (carpooling, room sharing with my daughter, etc). The girl got invited to ID2 camp. She'll be missing out 3 days of school, and you know you have to pay travel expense, i.e., airfares for both the player and her mom. ID2 only pays of the her boarding but not her mom. So, where on earth that they get that kind of money to go but they can't pay $35 for tournament fee?

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#495560 - 10/16/12 12:40 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Larry, at first I thought you're such a jerk for giving these smarty remarks. However, as I've read further in your posts, you had made some really good points that I can related to. There's a girl on our team whose parents always bragging about "they're so poor, no money, in financial debt" so that they can get some sympathy from the other parents. I was one of those who offered to help (carpooling, room sharing with my daughter, etc). The girl got invited to ID2 camp. She'll be missing out 3 days of school, and you know you have to pay travel expense, i.e., airfares for both the player and her mom. ID2 only pays of the her boarding but not her mom. So, where on earth that they get that kind of money to go but they can't pay $35 for tournament fee?


sounds like you got played man. but you will never know, maybe they found another benefactor who will fund the trip. by the sounds of it it looks like this parent really knows how to play the game of sympathy. but what's your beef really? you also sound like you are upset that the girl got invited to ID2, your girl was not invited?

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#515020 - 04/18/13 08:27 PM Re: what is the difference with ODP state/regional and this ID2? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Has ODP changed or is it the same ?

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