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#429779 - 04/05/11 08:27 PM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: BoardLord]
rhrhrh Offline
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Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 521
Thank you, I think you cleared up the major issues we had.

He is attending the program in 8th grade for two reasons: they allow children as young as 7th grade to attend, and with the spring club soccer schedule at U15, I expect him to be busier next spring than this spring.

I would hate to have to decide to have him attend a club soccer practice instead of an academic-oriented program for his college of choice in HS.

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#433007 - 05/09/11 12:12 AM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: BoardLord]
NorCal KeeperDad Offline
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Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 33
I have a question related to communicating with coaches. A bit of background will provide some context. The level of success experienced by the schools I mention below is an important part of the question I'm going to ask, but it may sound like I'm bragging. Although I am a proud dad, it's not my intention to brag - it just seems like its necessary background.

My daughter is a sophomore in high school. She is a goalkeeper on a class 1 team in Northern California (her team is probably one of the top 15 teams in the state - not in the upper tier, but competitive against most teams they play). They do not go to major showcases (they went to two middle-tier college showcases last year). She was an ODP regional pool keeper three years ago, took two years off of ODP involvement because of some issues with her knees, and is now back on the state ODP team preparing for regional camp in the summer. She also participates in the US Market Training Center on a monthly basis.

There are nine schools which have expressed interest in her so far (at various levels) - two of them have shown more aggressive interest than the others.

School A (a nationally-ranked D1 school and her top choice) first saw her at their ID camp last summer (while they had not directly expressed interest in her up until that point, her coach - who was a former star player and also an assistant coach for the college in the past - had spoken to the school's recruiting coach prior to the ID camp, so it wasn't a "cold" contact). Their recruiting coach had also seen her at the monthly Market Training Center events. They know that they are her top choice (both through their recruit questionnaire that she sent in a few months ago and through us expressing that fact to her club's Director of Coaching who passed it on to the recruiting coach). They have told us that they have interest in having her be a part of their program.

School B (also a D1 school - not nationally ranked last year but they have a national championship in their recent past) saw her when she guest-played for a friendly rival team at the Las Vegas showcase in March. Their recruiting coach contacted one of our daughter's goalkeeper coaches and asked him to give her the coach's phone number and have our daughter call her. When our daughter called the recruiting coach, she asked our daughter to call her once a week so they could "build a relationship." These weekly calls have been happening for about six weeks now.

Our impression is that School A has thought (until recently) that they have the "inside track" on a commitment from our daughter (perhaps because she is somewhat isolated with her club which, as I said, doesn't attend a lot of major showcases and because she has told them they are her top choice). However, when the recruiting coach from School A found out that our daughter had been having weekly conversations with the recruiting coach from School B, he seemed to express a more heightened level of interest, if that makes sense - up until then, he had said that they were interested. Afterwards, he wanted to have more frequent contact with her, have her come to the school for a tour, etc., etc.

It makes us wonder if there is a tasteful way to use the fact that School B has expressed such strong interest in her approaches to other schools. We know that if she were to mention in her emails to other schools that School B's recruiting coach has expressed a strong interest in having her play for them, it would peak their interest in her as well. But does this seem tasteless?

School A remains her top choice. But she is exploring other opportunities in case School A doesn't work out (it doesn't seem wise to assume it will work out and they have been up front with us that, although they have interest, they continue to explore their options as well - they have been very professional and honest with us). Since her club doesn't participate in major showcases, we have had to employ some specific strategies to get her noticed - ODP, participation in ID camps, guest-playing, a personal website, etc.

Leveraging the interest of School B may be one more strategy to use, but up until now, we've been hesitant because it doesn't seem entirely appropriate.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer - we really appreciate it.

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#433063 - 05/09/11 12:49 PM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: NorCal KeeperDad]
BoardLord Offline
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Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: NorCal KeeperDad
Summary Edition

My daughter is a sophomore in high school. She is a goalkeeper on a class 1 team in Northern California. There are nine schools which have expressed interest in her so far (at various levels) - two of them have shown more aggressive interest than the others.

Our impression is that School A has thought (until recently) that they have the "inside track" on a commitment from our daughter (perhaps because she is somewhat isolated with her club which, as I said, doesn't attend a lot of major showcases and because she has told them they are her top choice). However, when the recruiting coach from School A found out that our daughter had been having weekly conversations with the recruiting coach from School B, he seemed to express a more heightened level of interest, if that makes sense - up until then, he had said that they were interested. School A remains her top choice. But she is exploring other opportunities in case School A doesn't work out.

Leveraging the interest of School B may be one more strategy to use, but up until now, we've been hesitant because it doesn't seem entirely appropriate. Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
Welcome back to the BOTN College Forum NorCalKeeperDad and thank you for the detailed question. In some ways, the question is a real life situation that happens in business : you have two job offers and want to play one off against the second to secure the best possible offer. The key difference in a job situation is that you might like both opportunities equally while in this case, your keeper daughter has a clear preference.

As a High School sophomore, BOTN Industries strongly urges your family to keep each and every option open at this stage. You are not at the point in the recruiting cycle where the coach is locking up a spot for your daughter in which she might not have a real interest (and therefore be "blocking" another player who really wants the spot). Therefore, it is best to have both schools aware that you are being tracked/recruited by others to create a "buzz" around your daughter's situation.

As a rising junior come August/September 2011, your daughter will want to start some serious discussions with these same schools to secure both a roster spot and get some early indication of financial awards (athletic and academic). This will allow your family to have much more data by December 2011, the point at which many NCAA Division I programs have started cash assignments for junior year players.

Armed with that data, you can use the Spring 2012 season to entertain any final Division I or Division II offers before the Memorial Day end of her junior year.

Yes, it sounds like we have mapped your daughter's activities for the next twelve months - assuming that you have already the well establish top ten academic and athletic schools and that your daughter truly has a front runner institution, moving towards first commitments in December and final decisions by May 2012 at the latest will be a reasonable timeline.

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#433181 - 05/10/11 10:53 AM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: BoardLord]
NorCal KeeperDad Offline
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Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 33
Thanks BoardLord. I probably didn't make myself entirely clear. The recruiting coaches for School A and School B both know the other is interested - that was shared with them in phone conversations.

My question had more to do with what to share with a coach when my daughter first approaches them via email. She prepared her top-10 lists (academic and athletic) about a year ago before her club attended their first college showcase. As she has participated in other events, though, she has added a few - either because she saw a school that later interested her on a list of attending coaches or, in one case, because she was told a coach started writing furiously right after she made a great save in an ODP tournament.

When she is first contacting a coach by email, she could say that School A and School B have been recruiting her, but it seems kind of tacky. While we would love to use that leverage to create interest, it's the concept of "using" the coach that makes it a bit distasteful. Maybe she should save that information for future phone calls?

We appreciate the advice on timing - it's similar to what our thinking has been so far.

Thanks again!

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#433338 - 05/11/11 12:09 PM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: NorCal KeeperDad]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2412
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: NorCal KeeperDad
My question had more to do with what to share with a coach when my daughter first approaches them via email. She prepared her top-10 lists (academic and athletic) about a year ago before her club attended their first college showcase. As she has participated in other events, though, she has added a few - either because she saw a school that later interested her on a list of attending coaches or, in one case, because she was told a coach started writing furiously right after she made a great save in an ODP tournament.
Excellent news. While many readers question the reasons for building those Top 10 Lists prior to starting the showcasing events, your note offers evidence that it can keep you both organized and enable you to cast a critical eye on the important (and unimportant) schools that overlap with your daughter's interests.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
When she is first contacting a coach by email, she could say that School A and School B have been recruiting her, but it seems kind of tacky.
Agreed. When School C enters the picture either through a new contact outside of the Top 10 List or from a coach representing the "other eight" schools on the list outside School A and School B, your daughter's communications should avoid any mention of the other schools. It is important to gauge the School C coach's interest in seriously offering a roster spot before leveraging the interest of other schools. Treat School C on its own merits while you are exploring whether there is true mutual interest.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
While we would love to use that leverage to create interest, it's the concept of "using" the coach that makes it a bit distasteful.
Our experience is that most Division I coaches will make up their own minds when it comes to interest in a player. Interest from School C will not be changed just by saying that School A and School B are interested.

BOTN Industries can picture one possible exception to this rule however : suppose School C says "no thank you" to your daughter, but it turns out to be a top choice for her. In that case, we could picture saying that "School A and School B have already expressed interest so I must have done something right. Can you perhaps take one more look at me at an upcoming event?"

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Maybe she should save that information for future phone calls?
We think that the time to "use" the multiple school information is to first lock down a roster spot and then to negotiate the best possible athletic, academic, and financial aid awards at the top target school. Typically, one school will be above the others, so you can be aggressive with the second and third schools while more cooperative with your top choice. Our conversation has changed into a negotiating skills effort which is really about closing the deal.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
We appreciate the advice on timing - it's similar to what our thinking has been so far.

Thanks again!
Thanks for writing and sharing your experiences.

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#433344 - 05/11/11 12:39 PM Re: Communications : Profiles, Letters, Contacts [Re: BoardLord]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2412
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
The following posting comes from a June 2009 discussion here on the BOTN College Board which is very relevant to the questions raised by NorCalKeeperDad.

Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
thanks for the post on talking to the coach. It was very useful and I actually used the wording to other coaches. One question, do you tell a coach about another offer specifically?
BOTN Industries has seen this strategy play out in multiple scenarios and our best advice is inconclusive : in other words, it depends on the situation. Let's give some examples.

Scenario #1 : Top Choice Makes Offer, Second Choice Slightly Better
If your child has been offered a roster spot at Top Choice University ... and you have expressed that the target school is your child's number one college choice ... and you have been offered a 0.25 scholarship, does it matter that his or her second choice offered 0.50 scholarship? This will matter if the Top Choice University and Second Choice College are close in preference or your family has significant financial issues to consider. The "it depends" here is whether making the roster and programs at Top Choice University outweighs another 0.25 from another school. If you have established a good relationship with the coach at Top Choice U., you might be able to ask for more in a frank conversation, but the external offer means less at that point.

Scenario #2 : Top Choice Seems Hesitant on a Firm Offer, Second Choice Comes Through
So, what about an example where you might want to share details of another offer? Suppose you are waiting for a coach to firmly commit a roster spot and financial offer for your player at Top Choice University. Suddenly, Second Selection College offers a solid soccer/academic package, but the player still loves Top Choice U. Here, it might make sense to lay your cards on the table with the coach at Top Choice U. and ask for some firmer details as you are getting pressure from the head coach at Second Choice College for a decision.

In the end, sharing information about other offers is as much about negotiation skills as it is about leveraging one offer against another. Sorry that BOTN Industries is supplying the wishy-washy "it depends" answer, but there is no firm answer for every negotiation situation.

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