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#482319 - 06/19/12 05:01 PM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
You're very estute in your observations...she did receive invitations following exposure at college showcases and was complimented on her play. I do like your point about asking for a waiver of fees to attend multiple clinics at a school that has expressed interest in her keeping in touch...especially since she's got another year of this before deciding!
The reason to ask for a waiver has more to do with knowing the level of the college coach's engagement. For example, you might be able to ascertain if the coach will actually be in attendance. More so, you will be able to determine if there are actual recruiting decisions being made at the camp for the following seasonal years.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Just wanted to make sure she wasn't going thru the motions just to fund a program while making her choice process all the more complicated?
Your student-athlete should know at this point where he/she might be on the depth chart for keeper recruiting. You should also be checking the rosters at these target schools to know how many keepers are already "ahead" of him/her on the roster.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Her showcase feedback has also been very favorable and at the keeper position she's had plenty of top bracket exposure. We like the experience of her being able to spend a day, or possibly an overnight, at a schoolthat may well be a good fit for her.
Remember that with a camp experience, she will NOT be attending an overnight with the team's players as that exerience is reserved for an official visit (where you are limited to five in total).

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
just trying to get a handle on how many times a prospect should consider returning to the same program, as well as, how many different colleges it's worth going this route with? Yes, there is an expense involved, but it seems like a good way to get a feel for actually being in the program.
An unofficial visit followed by an official visit at the key target schools would not be unusual. Attending a camp at the same school is also not unusual but similarly not required.

The reason that BOTN recommends driving this process using a Top Ten Academic list and a Top Ten Athletic list is that questions like "how many" become self-answering. Typically, you will find that you will get very serious about three or four schools in the end game where official visits are involved. Official visits should be the final step in your family's decision making process.


'BL' as I go back over & review your advice I still have to wonder about asking College Coaches to show their hands this early? She's just finishing 10th grade after all...and honestly having a list of five top academic & five more athletic schools seems like a lot to juggle? Are you suggesting to just ask for a pass on camp fees from schools that she's attended once or twice?

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#482333 - 06/19/12 07:39 PM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: Anonymous]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2642
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
'BL' as I go back over & review your advice I still have to wonder about asking College Coaches to show their hands this early? She's just finishing 10th grade after all...and honestly having a list of five top academic & five more athletic schools seems like a lot to juggle? Are you suggesting to just ask for a pass on camp fees from schools that she's attended once or twice?
Great questions - and honest questions which are the best ones for our BOTN College Forum. As a rising junior, it is reasonable to have the honest conversation as to where your student-athlete might be on the target coach's radar.

As for managing a list of ten schools (five athletic, five academic), while it might seem overwhelming right now, the truth is that there are parents who come into the recruiting process trying to manage twenty-five or more. The fact that you have drawn the conclusion that ten is sufficient means that you are making the transition in understanding the work associated with chasing all of the prospects. As we recommend, start with ten academic and ten athletic schools and you will start finding yourself quickly narrowing to a target list of about five to eight schools. Keep working the list as new information emerges and you will remain organized and focused.

If your family has made the effort to make an unofficial visit "one or two times", it is perfectly reasonable to start asking the head coach where your student-athlete stands. Why make the effort to attend a college camp unless you know that the coach has sufficient and documented interest? (Yes, if you are purely interested in additional training, that is a differnt discussion that we have covered here on the College Forum.)

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#482854 - 06/23/12 09:29 AM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BoardLord
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
'BL' as I go back over & review your advice I still have to wonder about asking College Coaches to show their hands this early? She's just finishing 10th grade after all...and honestly having a list of five top academic & five more athletic schools seems like a lot to juggle? Are you suggesting to just ask for a pass on camp fees from schools that she's attended once or twice?
Great questions - and honest questions which are the best ones for our BOTN College Forum. As a rising junior, it is reasonable to have the honest conversation as to where your student-athlete might be on the target coach's radar.

As for managing a list of ten schools (five athletic, five academic), while it might seem overwhelming right now, the truth is that there are parents who come into the recruiting process trying to manage twenty-five or more. The fact that you have drawn the conclusion that ten is sufficient means that you are making the transition in understanding the work associated with chasing all of the prospects. As we recommend, start with ten academic and ten athletic schools and you will start finding yourself quickly narrowing to a target list of about five to eight schools. Keep working the list as new information emerges and you will remain organized and focused.

If your family has made the effort to make an unofficial visit "one or two times", it is perfectly reasonable to start asking the head coach where your student-athlete stands. Why make the effort to attend a college camp unless you know that the coach has sufficient and documented interest? (Yes, if you are purely interested in additional training, that is a differnt discussion that we have covered here on the College Forum.)


Very good points 'BL'...as I mentioned my daugter's a GK so our first look is always checking the school rosters for their current list of GK's. This tends to thin out the list right off the bat which is helpful by itself.
What do you suggest when arranging unofficial visits? Should we simply contact the Coach & ask for a date & time to visit and let them set up the details? Is there any discussions that would be taboo during these one-on-one contacts? (i.e. what other programs are interested or offering in the way of financial aid) Some colleges have already expressed interest from her showcase exposure so we would feel more comfortable steering the conversation quickly towards aid. Would this be a problem with other Coaches?

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#482877 - 06/23/12 12:46 PM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: Anonymous]
BoardLord Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2642
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
What do you suggest when arranging unofficial visits? Should we simply contact the Coach & ask for a date & time to visit and let them set up the details?
The coach and university will generally NOT set up detailed schedules for an unofficial visit to avoid any possible view that something is being paid by the institution and perhaps creating an environment where an "official" visit could be counted. Your student-athlete should absolutely contact the coach with several date options as to when you might be on-campus and ask the coach for a meeting during your visit and perhaps a campus tour as an unofficial visit.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Is there any discussions that would be taboo during these one-on-one contacts? (i.e. what other programs are interested or offering in the way of financial aid)
Any question that would help your family make a decision is a good question. These questions should cover your student-athlete's ranking on the depth chart, the number of recruits in which the coach has an interest, the available athletic scholarship pool, introductions to the financial aid department, introductions to academic scholarships, campus life for team members, and training schedules.

Discussing other programs that have an interest in your student-athlete should only be tackled when trying to force a decision from the college coach. It is always interesting to gauge the coach's reaction when your student-athlete (particularly a keeper or known goal scorer) is being recruited by another team in the same conference.

Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Some colleges have already expressed interest from her showcase exposure so we would feel more comfortable steering the conversation quickly towards aid. Would this be a problem with other Coaches?
If this is a question for which your family needs an answer in order to make some decisions, it is best that you get that discussion on the table early.

For example, if you are looking at College A which is $40,000 per year in academic fees plus another $10,000 in boarding expenses, does it make sense to continue the conversation if the maximum your family can afford is $25,000 per year in total? In this case, the coach would need to immediately work with you to discuss what funding could be available. [Be very wary that the discussion turns to loans as opposed to scholarships and grants.]

Similarly, if University B was a state school at $10,000 per year in academics and $10,000 in boarding expenses, your same budget of $25,000 per year relieves the financial pressure from being part of the initial discussions.

Hopefully, these two examples make sense. You need to start the financial discussions with those school in which you have the greatest interest and the most exposure financially.

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#483049 - 06/25/12 12:04 PM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: BoardLord]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes 'BL' this makes good sense and is much appreciated. I will take note of all your points.

Thanks for the great resource!

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#486051 - 08/01/12 07:08 PM Re: NCAA Rules and Regulations [Re: Anonymous]
BoardLord Offline
Back of THE NET
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2642
Loc: Not Possum Gulch, Arizona
Our sister site, Back of the Cage, has led an interesting discussion regarding local University coaches and the "50-Mile Rule" as imposed by the NCAA. BOTN thought that this topic was very appropriate for our Rules and Regulations Thread on the College Forum.

The following NCAA By-Law deals with College Coaches working with local sports clubs in their home community. Herein you will find the discussion of the "50-Mile Rule" dealing with how far an individual student-athlete can commute to be part of the local sports club and still coached by the associated college coach.

Bylaw 13.11.2.3 Ė Local Sports Clubs
In sports other than basketball, an institutionís coach may be involved in any capacity (e.g., as a participant, administrator or in instructional or coaching activities) in the same sport for a local sports club or organization located in the institutionís home community, provided all prospective student-athletes participating in said activities are legal residents of the area (within a 50-mile radius of the institution). In all sports, an institutionís coach may be involved in any capacity (e.g., as a participant, administrator or in instructional or coaching activities) in a sport other than the coachís sport for a local sports club or organization located in the institutionís home community, provided all prospective student-athletes participating in said activities are legal residents of the area (within a 50-mile radius of the institution). Further, in club teams involving multiple teams or multiple sports, the 50-mile radius is applicable only to the team with which the institutionís coach is involved; however, it is not permissible for the coach to assign a prospective student-athlete who lives outside the 50-mile area to another coach of the club. A coach also may be involved in activities with individuals who are not of a prospective student-athlete age, regardless of where such individuals reside. (In womenís volleyball, see Bylaw 13.1.7.12 for regulations relating to a coachís involvement with a local sports club and the permissible number of evaluation days.) (Revised: 1/10/90, 1/16/93, 9/6/00, 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02, 5/11/05)

13.11.2.3.1 Exception
The 50-mile radius restriction shall not apply to a prospective student-athlete who resides outside a 50-mile radius of the institution, provided the institution documents that the local sports club is the closest opportunity for the prospective student-athlete to participate in the sport. (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

13.11.2.3.2 Legal Resident
A prospective student-athlete who relocates to an area within a 50-mile radius of the institution on a temporary basis (e.g., to participate on a club team or attend an institution while maintaining a permanent residence outside of the 50-mile radius) is not a legal resident of the area regardless of whether the prospective student-athlete meets legal standards of state or local residency for governmental purposes. (Adopted: 9/18/07)

13.11.2.3.3 Institutional Sponsorship of Local Sports Club
Neither an institutionís athletics department nor an institutionís athletics booster group may sponsor a local sports club that includes prospective student-athletes. It is permissible for a department of the institution that operates independent of the athletics department (e.g., physical education department, recreation department) to sponsor a local sports club that includes prospective student-athletes, provided no athletics department staff member is involved with the club team. (Adopted: 1/16/93, Revised: 1/11/94)

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